27. The Brita of Middle-earth.
06/01/21 • 63 min
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Jared’s choice of topic: Lothlórien. Following the necessary but still disastrous journey through Moria, the Fellowship of the Ring is able to evade pursuing Orcs to journey to this forested Elf realm, itself thousands of years old as an organized society but ruled in recent years by Galadriel and Celeborn. Their experiences there are among the most personal and mysterious of their journey, at once a chance for recuperation but also a stay in a place that is seemingly out of time’s general flow—and, per various comments by Galadriel, increasingly out of time in general. Aragorn firmly rebukes Boromir’s unease at their journey by saying those who visit the land return ‘not unscathed but....unchanged,’ yet the nature of such an experience and the land itself are among the most elusive moments in Tolkien’s work. What does it mean that Tolkien himself, through the narrative personae of the hobbits’ eyes (and, in one memorable sequence, their other senses), seems to reach the limits of descriptive language when outlining Lothlórien? How do the borders function in demarcating Lothlórien from the outside world, and what do those elements suggest about the society that has evolved there? What can be made of the suggestions of ecological and political colonialism at play in the origins of Lothlórien, which Tolkien only explored in more detail after completing The Lord of the Rings? And besides his other seemingly amorphous at best qualities, why is Celeborn terrible at place names?
Show Notes.
Jared’s doodle. But you’ll have to imagine Nimrodel’s voice yourself.
Sergio Agüero does indeed have tengwar on his arm. But Fernando Torres is the real nerd.
Lothlorien Apartments! Flets not an option.
Charlotte Brändström joins the directing squad for Amazon. This show is never coming out, is it.
Ludi Lin isn’t wrong, really.
Specifically, the pilot was called Babylon 5: The Gathering, and it was indeed a lot earlier than the full show.
Lothlórien indeed. A place, a state of mind, somewhere neither here nor there?
Our episode on Galadriel (and Celeboring).
The Tolkien zine Ned was talking about is the still-going Beyond Bree. (The one he forgot to discuss further is Vinyar Tengwar.)
Peter Jackson and team really did a great job with Caras Galadhon, no lie. And again, all hail Liz Fraser.
The earlier Lórien (and yes, the Vala’s name is Irmo).
Kievan Rus is an intriguing society for sure, but yes, that origin story seems...convenient.
The various Elf kindreds are their own involved tangle, and Silvan Elves and the Sindar and the Noldor did all take different paths...
Ned got the forest in Beleriand wrong—that’s Taur-im-Duinath.
Maedhros, Amrod and Amras fan art showing off the red hair? Oh it’s there.
Eurovision is great, Italy’s winning entry this year was great, but yeah, Ukraine. (And totally separately, Iceland.)
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Jared’s choice of topic: Lothlórien. Following the necessary but still disastrous journey through Moria, the Fellowship of the Ring is able to evade pursuing Orcs to journey to this forested Elf realm, itself thousands of years old as an organized society but ruled in recent years by Galadriel and Celeborn. Their experiences there are among the most personal and mysterious of their journey, at once a chance for recuperation but also a stay in a place that is seemingly out of time’s general flow—and, per various comments by Galadriel, increasingly out of time in general. Aragorn firmly rebukes Boromir’s unease at their journey by saying those who visit the land return ‘not unscathed but....unchanged,’ yet the nature of such an experience and the land itself are among the most elusive moments in Tolkien’s work. What does it mean that Tolkien himself, through the narrative personae of the hobbits’ eyes (and, in one memorable sequence, their other senses), seems to reach the limits of descriptive language when outlining Lothlórien? How do the borders function in demarcating Lothlórien from the outside world, and what do those elements suggest about the society that has evolved there? What can be made of the suggestions of ecological and political colonialism at play in the origins of Lothlórien, which Tolkien only explored in more detail after completing The Lord of the Rings? And besides his other seemingly amorphous at best qualities, why is Celeborn terrible at place names?
Show Notes.
Jared’s doodle. But you’ll have to imagine Nimrodel’s voice yourself.
Sergio Agüero does indeed have tengwar on his arm. But Fernando Torres is the real nerd.
Lothlorien Apartments! Flets not an option.
Charlotte Brändström joins the directing squad for Amazon. This show is never coming out, is it.
Ludi Lin isn’t wrong, really.
Specifically, the pilot was called Babylon 5: The Gathering, and it was indeed a lot earlier than the full show.
Lothlórien indeed. A place, a state of mind, somewhere neither here nor there?
Our episode on Galadriel (and Celeboring).
The Tolkien zine Ned was talking about is the still-going Beyond Bree. (The one he forgot to discuss further is Vinyar Tengwar.)
Peter Jackson and team really did a great job with Caras Galadhon, no lie. And again, all hail Liz Fraser.
The earlier Lórien (and yes, the Vala’s name is Irmo).
Kievan Rus is an intriguing society for sure, but yes, that origin story seems...convenient.
The various Elf kindreds are their own involved tangle, and Silvan Elves and the Sindar and the Noldor did all take different paths...
Ned got the forest in Beleriand wrong—that’s Taur-im-Duinath.
Maedhros, Amrod and Amras fan art showing off the red hair? Oh it’s there.
Eurovision is great, Italy’s winning entry this year was great, but yeah, Ukraine. (And totally separately, Iceland.)
Previous Episode
26. The Work of Repair After the Storm.
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Oriana’s choice of topic: the Scouring of the Shire. Both the title of the penultimate chapter of The Lord of the Rings and the event it refers to, the Scouring depicts what happens when Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin return home after all their adventures, only to discover familiar places changed beyond recognition, not to mention the spirit of the Shire in general. Ranging from family reunions and stirring moments of bravery to guerrilla warfare and final scenes of at times surprising horror, it’s a remarkable elaboration on the idea that—unlike in some fairy tales or their descendants—you can’t entirely go home again. How do the individual hobbits both collectively and individually react to their situations, and in doing so, what does that mean for what is the ‘right’ way to respond? What implicit comments could Tolkien be making not only about his own experiences in war but his wider thoughts on imperialism and destruction in general? What does it mean in terms of how the Scouring seems to be ultimately less vengeful than similar situations in our own world, and could it be a form of wish fulfillment? How do adaptations of the story handle the Scouring—or do they do so at all? And why did Jared’s mom need to plant more peonies anyway?
Show Notes.
Jared’s doodle. For spring has sprung, you see.
As was said in the insert segment, check out our fellow Megaphonic podcast The Spouter-Inn on The Fellowship of the Ring! (And the bonus episode with Oriana is out!)
So yeah, looks like Amazon is kicking down a LOT of money there for their TV show. Rob Bricken has a point.
Meantime, so much for Amazon’s separate Tolkien MMORPG. For now at least.
John Waters has been wanting to film Fruitcake for over a decade now.
Don’t Call It a Cult by Sarah Berman on NXIVM is a good read indeed.
Morfydd Clark is still dropping breadcrumbs...
Yeah, Scott Rudin. Piece of work, this guy.
The Glomar Explorer deal is classic 1970s shenanigans.
The Scouring has been represented in Tolkien artwork various ways. Alan Lee’s is one of the most famous and melancholy representations, Inger Edelfeldt’s among the most dramatic.
There’s no exact equivalent in Peter Jackson’s version, of course—the brief visions in the Mirror of Galadriel aside—but the scene itself has some striking elements: the older hobbit woman wondering what’s up, and especially the wordless toast at the Green Dragon.
Restorative justice is gaining in popularity and interest.
In re Indiana Jones—never choose poorly.
Letter 100 from the published Tolkien letters is a very interesting state-of-mind read at the end of World War II.
Here’s our episode on imperialism.
More on umbrellas in Seattle. And if you’re wondering about ACAB...
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Next Episode
28. Is He Hot Or Is He Tall?
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Ned’s choice of topic: The Children of Húrin. The final posthumously published form of one of Tolkien’s original creations from the Book of Lost Tales, the 2007 book, edited and retouched slightly by Christopher Tolkien, The Children of Húrin primarily tells the story of the oldest child, Túrin. One of Tolkien’s most compelling figures, Túrin not merely verges on the antiheroic but at points nonheroic, simultaneously a figure driven by vengeance and justice for his losses and those of his family but ultimately causing the death and destruction of most of what he holds dear—he slays one of Morgoth’s chief lieutenants, the dragon Glaurung, but Glaurung exacts a terrible cost even in death. Is Túrin’s course in life truly the working out of a curse by Morgoth or is it the result of rash actions taken in the face of wiser counsel almost every step of the way? What does it say that it is one of Tolkien’s most vividly physical stories, including various humiliating fates, at one point the threat of rape, and in the end, drawing on one of humanity’s deepest taboos, unwitting incest? For all that various flawed or doomed heterosexual relationships define much of Túrin’s life, what does it say that the deepest connection he feels is to the Elf Beleg, and what does his own tragic death signify? And maybe to end on a lighter note, are those potatoes that the Petty-dwarves are digging up or what?
Show Notes.
Jared’s doodle. Tol Morwen, one of Middle-earth’s loveliest and saddest places.
Yes, Ned is a fan of RuPaul’s Drag Race in all its forms. He could go on.
The announcement of Warner Bros’s planned anime film, The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim.
Kenji Kamiyama has quite the rep, trust us.
And yes, as we talked about in episode 25, plenty of history already with Japanese animators and Tolkien!
That Fellowship of Fans Twitter thread with the Amazon contract details. Cross yer fingers...
TheOneRing.net’s piece with its best speculation about the whole issue of rights divisions going on about now.
The Children of Húrin—and there’s a lot going on.
That Tumblr post with Túrin describing himself as the ultimate goth. He would.
Kullervo, the Finnish anti-hero that was the general source for Túrin but not the sole one. Tolkien’s translation, created before he created the Book of Lost Tales but only published formally in 2015, is one of his earliest works.
It’s a little obvious to mention—and Kullervo’s story overall is closer—but yes, Oedipus Rex is also a key template for the dramatic end of the story.
Ned’s old 2007 blog entry on reading The Children of Hurin.
Episode 2—and Tuor is still just a guy.
Glaurung, Tolkien’s other main dragon creation in Middle-earth...is a piece of work.
Is there Turin and Beleg fan art? C’mon, you know the answer.
Alan Lee’s illustration from the book of Glaurung approaching Brethil.
The Petty-dwarves have their own tangled tale, mostly unknown.
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