Burning Ambulance Podcast

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Muriel Grossmann is a saxophonist originally from Vienna, Austria, but now she lives in Spain, and she puts out roughly an album a year entirely independently, though she licenses them to a label for the vinyl editions, which she talks about in this interview. She was very open about the business side of being an independent musician, in terms of self-funding and having the discipline and mental fortitude to keep on pushing until you find the audience that’s waiting to hear your music.

Muriel plays spiritual jazz, long flowing tunes that may remind you of Alice Coltrane or Pharoah Sanders – I hear things that remind me of early 70s Joe Henderson or Azar Lawrence records too, and sometimes when she adds harp and droning elements from tamboura and other instruments, it reminds me of Illuminations, the album Carlos Santana made with Alice Coltrane, or even Larry Young’s Lawrence of Newark. What’s most fascinating about her music, though, is the degree to which she uses the studio as an instrument, adding layers upon layers of percussion and drone and ornamentation so it’s not just four or five musicians, it sounds almost orchestral at times. We talk about that a lot too, as well as the whole definition of the phrase spiritual jazz, which you see thrown around a lot without ever really pinning down what it means, or how you would define it in terms of a set of rhythms or a particular instrumental palette or whatever – it’s just kind of a know it when you hear it sort of thing.

Anyway, this was a very interesting conversation from my perspective, as I’ve only recently become a fan of Muriel’s but now I’m deep into her catalog, almost all of which is available on Bandcamp, so by all means check it out after you’re done listening to this interview. And if you enjoy this podcast, please consider visiting patreon.com/burningambulance and becoming a subscriber. For just $5 a month, you can help keep this show and Burning Ambulance as a whole active and thriving. Thanks!

Music heard in this episode:

Muriel Grossmann, "Wien" (Quiet Earth)

Muriel Grossmann, "Wisdom" (Earth Tones)

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This episode features an interview with saxophonist Ivo Perelman, which is important because he's one of the artists on Polarity, a CD which I'll be putting out through my new label, Burning Ambulance Music, in February 2021. It's a duo album with trumpeter Nate Wooley, and it's intensely beautiful music unlike anything else you've ever heard, I promise. Pre-order your copy now.

I’ve known about Ivo Perelman for about 25 years; the first record of his I heard was Cama de Terra, which came out in 1996. It was actually the very last release on Homestead Records, right before Steven Joerg, who was running the label at the time, left and started AUM Fidelity. That album featured Perelman with Matthew Shipp on piano and William Parker on bass, and they’re two of the people he’s continued to work with ever since, along with many others, including Joe Morris, Nate Wooley, Mat Maneri, Whit Dickey, and a whole slew of other players.

See, Ivo’s discography is massive. He puts out albums in bunches, sometimes as many as eight at a time, sometimes three and even four-CD sets. He just recently passed the 100 release mark, which puts him in relatively rarefied company, up there with Duke Ellington, Anthony Braxton, David Murray, and very few others. It can be hard to know where to begin with his catalog, frankly, but his music has evolved a lot over time – he’s really on a lifelong creative journey, which is why he’s constantly collaborating with people in new combinations and changing his approach to the horn and just generally trying new things. So you’re probably best off starting with something recent and then moving backwards, deciding what to listen to based on who’s on a given record.

He’s been living in Brooklyn for many years, but he’s originally from Sao Paulo, Brazil, and when the pandemic got rolling, he went back to Brazil, which is where we connected for this interview. It was conducted via Skype, so there are a few points at which the sound warps a little, or cuts in and out. Still, I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out what he’s saying in those moments. We had a really fascinating conversation, about his creative philosophy and his practice regimen and the role of improvisation in Brazilian music and a lot of other things. I hope you’ll enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed having it.

If you enjoy this podcast, please consider visiting patreon.com/burningambulance and becoming a subscriber. For just $5 a month, you can help keep this show and Burning Ambulance as a whole active and thriving. Thanks!

Music heard in this episode:

Ivo Perelman/Nate Wooley, "Four" (Polarity)

Ivo Perelman/Matt Shipp/Whit Dickey, "Garden of Jewels" (Garden of Jewels)

Billy Harper has had a pretty incredible career. He was a member of Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers in 1968. He played with Max Roach. He was part of the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Big Band and the Gil Evans big band, and because of those connections he got to play on a Louis Armstrong album. He was on Lee Morgan’s final studio album, recorded in 1971. And he’s had a solo career since the early Seventies, making legendary albums like Capra Black for the Strata-East label and Black Saint for...well, for Black Saint. It was their first release, and they named the label after it!

Since about 2008, Harper has been a member of the Cookers, a group led by trumpeter David Weiss that also features Eddie Henderson on trumpet, Donald Harrison or Craig Handy on alto sax, George Cables — who’s been on this podcast — on piano, Cecil McBee on bass, and Billy Hart on drums. All of those guys have long careers as leaders, but when they come together, playing music from their back catalogs and new material, they’re really amazing. I’ve seen them live twice and it’s just astonishing to watch absolute masters get up there and deliver the way they do.

I really had a good time talking to Billy Harper. In this interview, we talk about the Texas tenor sax tradition, we talk about his time with Lee Morgan, we talk about the Cookers, about his solo work, about how to teach improvisation, and a bunch of other things. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider visiting patreon.com/burningambulance and becoming a subscriber. For just $5 a month, you can help keep this show and Burning Ambulance as a whole active and thriving. Thanks!

Music featured in this episode:
Billy Harper, “Call of the Wild and Peaceful Heart” (Black Saint)
The Cookers, “Destiny is Yours” (Look Out!)

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Episode 73 of the Burning Ambulance podcast features an interview with pianist Cameron Graves.

I have a single subject we’re going to be exploring through all ten episodes that I’m going to be presenting this season, and that subject is fusion. Fusion means much more, I think, than just the music that most people probably think of when they hear the word. Of course, it immediately brings to mind bands from the 1970s like the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, and Weather Report: groups that were formed by ex-members of Miles Davis’s band, playing extremely complex compositions that blurred the lines between progressive rock and jazz, while still leaving room for extended improvisation. But if you think of fusion as a process rather than a style, the discussion gets a lot more interesting. Because then you can pull in the music being made by Yes, King Crimson, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Santana, etc., all of which gets filed under just plain rock. And you can talk about the music Latin artists like Eddie Palmieri, Ray Barretto, and the Fania All Stars were making at the same time. Or the really adventurous funk and R&B that was being made by Sly and the Family Stone, Parliament, Funkadelic, the Isley Brothers, Earth, Wind & Fire, the Ohio Players, Slave, which then leads you to jazz-funk names like George Duke, Billy Cobham, the Crusaders, Donald Byrd, Freddie Hubbard, Eddie Henderson, and of course Mwandishi and the Headhunters. This is how I prefer to think about fusion. It’s not just a specific, narrow slice of music, it’s the sound of walls being knocked down across the landscape.

So that’s the kind of philosophical starting point for all the interviews I’m doing this season, and that’s what makes Cameron Graves such a perfect person to talk to. Because he’s a guy who crosses all sorts of musical boundaries. He’s had a lot of classical music training, as I learned during this conversation, he spent several years studying Indian music, and obviously he’s got a deep jazz background starting out as a member of the Young Jazz Giants with Kamasi Washington and the Bruner brothers, Stephen aka Thundercat on bass and his brother Ronald on drums, which evolved into the West Coast Get Down and all the albums that they’ve made over the last half dozen years or so. But Cameron’s also a lifelong metalhead — in fact, he played keyboards and guitar in Wicked Wisdom, the nu-metal band fronted by Jada Pinkett Smith in the early 2000s. So he’s not only toured the world with Kamasi Washington and with Stanley Clarke, because he’s a member of Clarke’s band, too — he also played Ozzfest.

And here’s an interesting connection: the drummer for Wicked Wisdom was Philip “Fish” Fisher, the drummer for Fishbone. And when you talk about fusion as the kind of big-tent/umbrella sort of conceptual thing that I’m talking about, you have to include them in there. They mixed funk and hard rock and punk and metal and ska and reggae and jazz into one big swirl, particularly on their most ambitious album, 1991’s The Reality of My Surroundings. There’s all kinds of music on there, from Bad Brains-style hardcore to Last Poets-style abstract jazz poetry. And of course they were the best live band on the planet from the mid ’80s to the early ’90s.

Fishbone were never as big as they deserved to be, but they were absolute heroes in L.A., and they were a huge inspiration to all kinds of open-minded musicians who came up in their wake. Last year, I interviewed Terrace Martin, who’s an alto saxophonist affiliated with the West Coast Get Down but is also a hip-hop producer who’s worked with Snoop Dogg for years — in fact, he put together a live band for Snoop in about 2010 that included Kamasi Washington, Thundercat, Ryan Porter, who’s been on this podcast before, and other people from their circle as well. Anyway, when I talked to Martin, he expressed...

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It’s been a long time since I’ve done one of these. In fact, the last episode was released in December of 2022. I talked then to film critic Walter Chaw about his book on the work of director Walter Hill. Since then, a lot’s been going on. Most notably, I wrote a book of my own, In The Brewing Luminous: The Life And Music Of Cecil Taylor, which will be released this year. It’s the first full-length biography and critical analysis of Taylor, who is not only a hugely important jazz musician – along with Ornette Coleman, Albert Ayler and others, he was one of the pioneers of free jazz and really pushed the music forward in undeniable ways – but is also, I believe and argue in the book, a brilliant and under-recognized American composer whose work spans a much broader range than many people realize.

Ethan Iverson is also a really interesting American composer. You could be reductive about it and call him a synthesist of old and new pop and jazz styles, but he has a strong and recognizable voice that becomes easy to hear the more of his music you listen to. There are chords and types of melodies that he favors that set him apart from his peers, and he’s got a real attraction to big hooks, which manifested in the Bad Plus’s work in a number of ways and shows up in his solo work too. The Bad Plus developed a reputation for piano trio covers of pop songs that people often seemed to think were ironic, but were in fact performed from a perspective of real love for compositional form. A great tune is a great tune. And it’s worth remembering that they also recorded Igor Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring, which is an avant-garde landmark but also has some really kick-ass and highly memorable melodies. After all, it was originally written for dancers.

Ethan’s new album, Technically Acceptable, is his second record for Blue Note and he’s doing some things on it that he’s never done before. First of all, he’s playing with two different rhythm sections that are made up of musicians more or less his own age, even younger than himself. Until now, he’s tended to record with older players, legends like Jack DeJohnette, Albert "Tootie" Heath, Billy Hart, Paul Motian, Ron Carter, etc. This is his first time post-Bad Plus making an album entirely with musicians of his own generation. Also, it includes a solo piano sonata – three movements, fifteen minutes, a through composed classical piece that still manages to fit under the umbrella of jazz in a George Gershwin meets Fats Waller kind of way. This album is a real showcase for him as a composer.

Ethan and I talk about Cecil Taylor in the interview you’re about to hear. We also talk about his work and how it’s evolved over the years, the economics of surviving as a jazz musician in the 21st century, and we talk about other piano players of his generation like Jason Moran, Aaron Diehl, Aaron Parks, Jeb Patton, and Sullivan Fortner. We talk about diving into the music’s history, and about how there’s as much to learn and draw from in the music of the 1920s and 1930s as in the music of the 1960s and afterward, and about the increasing movement toward composition in current jazz. This is his second time on the podcast – a couple of years ago, I interviewed him alongside Mark Turner, because they’d made a duo album together. But this time it’s a one on one conversation, and I hope you’ll find it as interesting as I did.