An Equine Conversation

I’m delighted to welcome Ellen Cochrane back to An Equine Conversation. We heard from Ellen in Season 4, talking all about equine agility and The International Horse Agility Club. This episode is something quiet different: We’re hearing about Ellen’s journey to and experiences in working with mules, both her own mule Inara, and her voluntary efforts in supporting humans working with mules in Morocco to improve welfare outcomes for animals and people. I get tingles even thinking about this episode & what Ellen has been involved with. I hope you find the episode as educational and inspiring as I have.

Ellen Cochrane:

Ellen Cochrane is from Worcestershire, England. She is a positive reinforcement trainer who works with a variety of equines and their humans through her business Gaia Horsemanship and as part of her work with the International Horse Agility Club - listen to Season 4, Episode . Ellen works mostly with horses in England but she has a huge passion for mules which started in 2014 when she started working to improve mule welfare in Morocco. Ellen works in the High Atlas Mountains of Morocco helping muleteers to improve the welfare of their working mules by improving knowledge and communication and using kinder equipment, plus Ellen is the UK ambassador for Moroccan-based equine rescue charity, Jarjeer Donkey and Mule refuge. Ellen has her own mule, Inara, who has gone from unhandled and fearful of humans to Horse Agility World Champion.

In this episode we discuss:

1:26 - Merry Christmas!

3:10 - introduction to today’s episode & guest

7:26 - Ellen’s horsie origin story

10:20 - how positive reinforcement came into Ellen’s world

12:20 - Ellen’s herd

18:09 - conditions & context

22:15 - what’s haylage?

25:04 - how Ellen got involved with mules - a request to go to Morocco

27:46 - the work done by the mules in the mountains of Morocco

30:18 - where the work with mules & humans began

32:33 - what even is a mule & mule breeding

36:41 - what happened after the first trip, working alongside muleteers

42:00 - how does the communication happen: language & gender roles

45:28 - engaging effectively with the male muleteers as an English woman

46:59 - the primary things Ellen helps muleteers with

52:54 - being sought out & the muleteers ‘paying it forward’, a story showing how amazing mules are

55:26 - mule social needs

56:28 - the amazing work of the Jarjeer Mule and Donkey Trust

1:00:36 - trips to Morocco now & contrasts

1:02:32 - getting a mule back at home

1:09:26 - going back to Morocco

1:12:42 - tips for working with mules

1:16:47 - finding out more & supporting

1:19:35 - huge thanks to Ellen for all her efforts

1:23:24 - wrapping up this episode & Season 5 of An Equine Conversation

Links from Ellen:

Gaia Horsemanship Website: www.gaiahorsemanship.co.uk

Gaia Horsemanship Facebook: www.facebook.com/gaiahorsemanship

It’s A Mule’s Life Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/itsamuleslife

Jarjeer Donkey and Mule refuge Website: https://www.jarjeer.org/

Jarjeer Donkey and Mule refuge Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jarjeermules

Our links mentioned this episode:

Please share with us, your thoughts on S5 of An Equine Conversation

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Abbey's Run Equestrian website

Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

Today we welcome our first new guest for this Season. Ivy Starnes caught my attention through her generous sharing of videos documenting her journey with a horse called Swagger, a young, now gelding who was previously living in the wild. I’ve been captivated by Ivy’s training with the support of her coach and friend Michelle, as they help this incredibly unique and quite spectacular horse learn about connecting with humans. He has forced Ivy to really refine her training, and it is super inspiring to watch.

Not only is the training lovely, and the problem-solving Ivy and Michelle work through, but also Ivy’s dedication to recording the journey and then paying forward the assistance she was given earlier in life, by sharing the footage so openly.

I’m so pleased that Ivy is joining me today so we (I mean, let’s be honest, I invite people onto An Equine Conversation so I get to hear from them too) get to hear more detail around Ivy’s experience with this seriously unique horse.

Ivy Starnes:

Ivy Starnes has been training horses since she was 16 years old. She started with natural horsemanship methods and has slowly moved more and more towards positive reinforcement. While she still uses pressure and release, Ivy is doing more and more with clicker training. She spends most of her training and teaching working with gaited horses and riders, working to get a smooth and relaxed gait for the trail.

In April of 2023, Ivy was given McSwagger to train for the Heart of Phoenix Equine Rescue. Swagger was a feral gelding from eastern Kentucky and Ivy had no previous experience training wild horses. Ivy had seen wild mustangs trained before and assumed she would be able to train Swagger just as easily. He quickly proved her wrong and Ivy is on a journey of training Swagger using only positive reinforcement, documenting the moments and sharing them so others will realize that some horses really do need a lot of time to overcome their fear.

In this episode we discuss:

1:25 - episode introduction

3:50 - where in the world are Ivy & Swagger & the climate they live and train in

11:55 - talking hay

12:42 - whoops, sorry Tassie listeners! The rest of what I said was right but you are not 'an Island off Australia', you are 'an Island OF Australia'. My bad!

13:30 - Ivy's unique horsie origin story & gaited horses

26:50.954 - Swagger's story

32:13 - how Swagger came to be with Ivy & initially it seemed it would be easy...

36:57 - but it didn't start well

39:54 - getting out of the rut & getting some help

42:13 - help that's remote

43:60 - starting to slowly solve Swagger's disengagement

48:44 - a break-through and the progress snowball starting to slowly roll

51:56 - the approach for Swagger's care & welfare needs, particularly hoof care

1:03:11 - developing Swagger's environmental curiosity

1:04:35 - the highlights reel from February 2024 onward

1:09: 43 - coaching support with Michelle

1:13:44 - what MAYBE next

1:15:14 - Ivy's biggest learnings & recommendations

1:21:15 - supporting Swagger's journey & finding Ivy

1:24:14 - further thoughts

1:26:47 - wrapping-up with Swagger & Ivy's gift to us & what's on next week

Links from Ivy:

Go Fund Me link: https://gofund.me/83d83a1f

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/IvysHorses

Website: www.IvysHorses.com

Our links mentioned this episode:

Sign-up to our email list

Abbey's Run Equestrian website

Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

On the 8th of June 2008, my life changed forever with a split-second accident that saw me trampled by my then 2.5-year-old horse, Fernando, and air-lifted to Hospital for life-saving surgery.

This episode is the story of that accident, what happened, the damage that did and where that’s left me now.

Before I even introduce this episode, I want to give you a warning. This episode talks about my accident in some detail. There has been one person who on hearing the story, when I was still in Hospital, passed out as a result. If you are someone likely to do that, then please skip this episode or at least, do not listen while driving or doing something where you could get injured... I don’t want my accident resulting in other accidents... not the effect I’m hoping for!

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In S4 E4 of An Equine Conversation, Why Virtual Learning’s Worth Exploring, I make mention of my being immune-compromised and why for me, that’s one of the reasons that virtual learning is so awesome as I’m so limited to what’s possible in-person due to the very real and serious threat Covid still holds for me. I mention this again in S4 E5 with Erin Moore too when we’re talking about giving micro & small business owners a metaphorical hug – I like a good hug personally but being immune compromised makes it a no-no.

So anyway, in this episode of An Equine Conversation I’m going to share with you my story of the horsey accident that left me immune-compromised. It’s a story I’ve told many times. I know some of you will have heard some or all of it before. For those newer to me and my work teaching and my approach, hearing about this part of my story will help inform you more about who I am, what I’m about and why I’m passionate about safety... and importantly, why my horse Fernando and I have a very unique, very special relationship and why he has been my best teacher.

In this episode we discuss:

1:22 - episode warning

2:04 - episode introduction

3:29 - the 8th of June 2008

5:09 - the backstory of Fernando’s misadventures, to get you up to speed

9:18 - setting the scene & it all going pear-shaped

13:19 - paramedics ahoy!

16:17 - arriving at The Alfred (Hospital)

21:02 - time in Hospital isn’t fun but it was busy

28:21 - recovering at home & an unexpected Hospital re-visit scenario

38:43 - the upshot of my injuries now

48:02 - how I’ve changed my outlook (or not) as a result of the accident

53:57 - Fernando, the best teacher

57:38 - take-aways from my experience

1:01:33 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week

Links mentioned this episode:

• Sign-up to our email list
• Abbey's Run Equestrian website
• Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]

I am so pleased to be welcoming our 2nd first time guest to An Equine Conversation for Season 5. We’ve had some super wild weather here in my part of the world this Spring that meant this guest and I had to reschedule recording this episode multiple times. Despite the severe storms, power-outages, trees down, no internet, we got there in the end and are bringing you an episode with our most wonderful Equine Veterinary Dentist, Dr Paul Owens from the Horse Vet Dentist.

I won’t lie, I used to think the horses mouth was a whole lot simpler than it is. For many years, my horses had an annual visit from an equine dental technician. I’d seen a couple of talks given by them & I thought I knew much of what there was to know. Gosh, how wrong I was! It was thanks to a number of wonderful horsie friends whose opinions I rate, who were working with Dr Paul Owens and singing his praises, that we too got Paul on board our horse-care team maybe 4-5 years ago now. And wow, have we learnt so much over that time. Paul’s knowledge is amazing, as is his preparedness to educate interested owners. Each time Paul’s here, which is every 6-months, there are things I learn and get to see with my own eyes in my horses mouths which is really impactful for my understanding.

We really love having Paul as part of our herd’s care team as we share the mission of improving welfare for equines through our work and both love learning more, with Paul bringing us information on the latest research into all things horses mouths. Not only that, but we get to hear some cool stories about the work he does with Zoo’s Victoria too. Which, for those of you who like me, train with positive reinforcement, mean that Paul is already really familiar with this training approach as he sees it in action in his work with the Zoo & is so awesome in supporting what I do with my herd, which can be to our amusement. In his visit here just a few weeks ago, Rufus is such a pro at loading on the crush, we’ve made it so positively reinforcing for him, that he took himself there before we were even ready for him.

In today’s episode, we’re going to peer inside the horse’s mouth with Paul and learn a bunch about how it works and equine oral health care.

Dr Paul Owens:

Paul graduated from the University of Liverpool in the UK in 2001 following a degree in Animal Science and PhD in Animal Nutrition. He worked in North Yorkshire in mixed practice where he developed his interest in equine dentistry attending several BEVA course in this field.

In 2007 Paul came to Australia working in Equine/Small Animal Practice in SE Melbourne before eventually setting up a dedicated veterinary dentistry practice in 2011 called HorseVetDentist.

The practice offers a wide range of equine dentistry services from routine dental assessments to referrals for advanced dental extraction techniques, periodontal treatments and restorative dentistry.

Paul is a tutor on the EVDS veterinary dentistry courses and teaches veterinary students at the U-Vet centre Werribee. He has been fortunate to assist with dentistry procedures at Zoos Victoria and Healesville Sanctuary.

Paull attained his MANCVS Memberships in Equine Dentistry in 2014 and continues to attend workshops in dentistry both overseas and in Australia.

In this episode we discuss:

1:23 - introduction to this episode & to Dr Paul Owens

4:08 - Dr Paul Owens bio

5:20 - welcoming Paul

6:59 - Paul’s Vet Dentist origin story & ongoing education

13:24 - the importance of evidence-based practice

15:37 - how the horse’s mouth works

20:33 - are donkey and mule mouths the same?

21:24 - what a horses’s oral check/assessment involves (a lot!)

30:53 - teeth are living structures

33:14 - the carrot bite test & the periodontal ligament

35:22 - dental pain in humans and horses (with a shout-out to Dr Chris Pearce at the Equine Dental Clinic Ltd)

40:00 - size of the carrot for the carrot bite test

42:16 - 2 big common dental diseases of the front teeth: nerve exposure & EOTRH

46:03 - more on dental (and other) pain in horses & how easy it is to miss (shout-out to Dr Sue Dyson)

51:05 - one thorough oral examination is not enough - it’s a repeated process as our horses’ mouths are dynamic & change over time

54:23 - standards for thorough oral examination timelines

57:01 - horses’ baby teeth

1:03:02 - top tips for dental health

1:11:55 - on working with Zoo’s Victoria animals

1:17:09 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week

Links from Paul:

The HorseVetDentist on Facebook

Equine Dental Cli...

In today’s episode I’m going to chat with you about the awesomeness of virtual learning in the horse world. This episode is inspired in part by Ivy sharing her experience in last week’s episode and just how integral Michelle’s remote support has been to Swagger and Ivy’s journey and progress. But it’s also inspired by my own experiences with the virtual learning landscape, and by conversations I’ve had with a few people who groan at the prospect...

And if, you’ve had to do eLearns for your job, then um, let me just say that these can be, uh, dry, and um, uninspiring. So please, please don’t rate your virtual learning experience based on those alone!

If you are groaning at me suggesting more screen time, I know so many people have screen-fatigue, particularly off the back of Covid and due to the way some jobs now operate, I’m not immune from this at all, but if you can stand to, bear with me while I talk through why virtual or remote learning is awesome and why it’s not actually always about the screen. Spoiler alert, you’re listening to me right now, learning, sans screen.

I want to nudge you up-front to say that you’re actually likely already engaging in enjoyable, helpful, virtual learning - most likely the free stuff if not paid. Like me, you’re a good chance to have watched things on YouTube, see things on social media, read blog posts, and I mean, you’re listening to this podcast. You’re doing it already!

Today, I’m talking more about the paid virtual learning opportunities that exist. I’m going to start with talking about my experience as a learner, then expand on what online learning can do for you. Then I’m going to switch and talk about my experience as an educator and coach and what it’s like from that perspective – which will also explore why the benefits for me and other coaches are benefits for you too.

In this episode we discuss:

1:24 - episode introduction

3:00 - you’re already doing it

4:01 - my experiences as a learner with remote/virtual learning

5:13 - the challenge of being so far away

7:28 - the variety of online learning delivery methods

8:47 - horses get to stay home

9:58 - loving virtual learning despite technology not being ‘my first language’

10:49 - making new friends

12:54 - it’s inclusive for me

14:22 - benefits of remote/virtual learning for you & some of the challenges with a conventional format

18:28 - it’s not always about the screen

22:06 - consuming on your time, in your location

23:44 - learning remotely is not new here in Australia

25:04 - learning the tech is like learning anything

26:18 - why virtual learning is great as an educator with a micro-business & why that makes it great for you too, starting with some of my history to give context

31:27 - the overheads, the real costs

33:15 - what virtual learning offers us

36:02 - in-person learning is also awesome

36:56 - ask super nicely

38:29 - after listening

40:14 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week

Links mentioned this episode:

• Sign-up to our email list
• Abbey's Run Equestrian website
• Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook

Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at [email protected]