Bloody, Brutal and Barbaric? Ep. 9 The Relationship between “Drive Out” and “Total Kill”
05/18/23 • 27 min
Summary
In this episode, we dive into how Webb and Oeste explain the relationship between the "drive out" and "total kill" instructions in Scripture. We see that it doesn’t make sense for them to be two words for the same thing, but they are related. They actually function as two means to the same end, and we'll discuss how the authors develop this idea of "shared-goal equivalency."
This conversation led us to talk about God's mercy and patience, and to re-evaluate whether we tell and apply these stories in a way that truly reflects God's tone.
Notes
Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:
A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/
Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048
Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)
Summary
In this episode, we dive into how Webb and Oeste explain the relationship between the "drive out" and "total kill" instructions in Scripture. We see that it doesn’t make sense for them to be two words for the same thing, but they are related. They actually function as two means to the same end, and we'll discuss how the authors develop this idea of "shared-goal equivalency."
This conversation led us to talk about God's mercy and patience, and to re-evaluate whether we tell and apply these stories in a way that truly reflects God's tone.
Notes
Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:
A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/
Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048
Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)
Previous Episode
Bloody, Brutal and Barbaric? Ep. 8, 1 Samuel 15: Church Leadership, Repentance, and Hard Conversations
Summary
While Bloody, Brutal, and Barbaric? is about the Canaanite conquest, as we read the chapter on Saul and the Amalekites, we couldn’t help but notice how strongly it is highlighted that Saul is an unfit leader, who cares about his own glory and position, far more than he cares about obedience to God. Perhaps it is the current reckoning in which much of the evangelical church finds itself, but we felt we’d be remiss if we didn’t stop and consider how this Old Testament text so encourages us to think through this relevant issue.
Notes
1) Listeners who want to look further into issues of power abuse in the church may be interested in some of the following resources:
Glen Scrivener’s material on abuse in the church following the Ravi Zacharias scandal: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4zD5797LHdeSKbVtM7_AzOO-4miUyRQo
Roys Report https://julieroys.com/podcast/
CT on John MacArthur https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/february/grace-community-church-elder-biblical-counseling-abuse.html
Rise and Fall of Mars Hill https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/
Bodies Behind the Bus https://open.spotify.com/show/10b0rbS8MNB7UjNIlWUAmf
Dangerous Calling by Paul David Tripp https://www.amazon.ca/Dangerous-Calling-Confronting-Challenges-Pastoral/dp/1433541378/
2) We can be contacted on social media
Twitter: @wisirpod
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089794804928
Instagram: @was.it.something.i.read
3) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:
A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/
Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048
Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)
Next Episode
Bloody, Brutal and Barbaric? Ep. 10 Ancient War Atrocities and Our Modern Context
Summary
In this difficult and sobering episode, we look at a range of ancient – and not-so-ancient – war practices that were common in the Ancient Near East. But though we talk about what these horrific practices entailed (we hope, in ways that are not unnecessarily gruesome), what’s most interesting is in their connection with scripture. While scripture is aware of all these practices, biblical law disallowed virtually all of them. We begin to talk about the ultimate justice of God, which is a subject we will take up more in future episodes. And we start to ask uncomfortable questions about whether war practices have actually changed that much.
Notes
1) Further on the subject of forced stripping, Dr David Tombs has done extensive work on sexual violence in the context of torture and terror, focusing recently on Jesus as a victim of sexual humiliation/violence:
Reaves, J. R., Tombs, D., & Figueroa, R. (Eds.). When did we see you naked? Jesus as a victim of sexual abuse. London: SCM Press, 2021.
Tombs, D. The crucifixion of Jesus: Torture, sexual abuse, and the scandal of the cross. Abingdon: Routledge, 2023. doi: 10.4324/9780429289750 (available free online from publisher)
He also presented many of these thoughts as part of this recent CSBV webinar: Unspeakable: Preaching and Trauma-Informed Theology. Lent Book Club
2) Webb and Oeste refer in Chapter 13, footnote 34, to a Babylonian lament that recoils from the ripping of pregnant women, English text of which may be found in Shalom M. Paul, Amos, Hermeneia. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1991, p. 68.
3) Imprecatory (cursing) psalms are a cry of the powerless for justice, and for God to act in ways that those who have been abused cannot. A recent CSBV webinar may be of interest: Cursing with God: The Imprecatory Psalms and the Ethics of Christian Prayer. Lent Book Club
4) The Toronto Star article on war rape in Ukraine that Kate referenced: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2023/01/25/it-is-clearly-a-strategy-the-truth-is-emerging-about-russias-use-of-rape-in-the-war-on-ukraine.html
5) On issues of trauma carried in the body, see van der Kolk, B. The Body Keeps the Score. New York: Penguin Books, 2014.
6) If you are interested in issues of Palestinian oppression and the misuse of scripture to provide the theological underpinnings for that oppression, check out this webinar with CSBV, and also our upcoming conference:
The Other Side of the Wall: A Palestinian Christian Narrative of Lament and Hope. Lent Book Club.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/annual-conference-2023/
7) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:
A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/
Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048
Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)
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