Unscripted SaaS

In this conversation, Jeremy Rivera interviews Bryan Shankman, co-founder and CEO of Tool Desk and LeadTruffle discussing the origins of their SaaS products, the challenges of pricing and customer support, and the strategies for marketing and future-proofing their business.
Bryan shares insights on building a successful startup in the home services industry, the importance of customer engagement, and the risks associated with relying on a platform like Jobber. In this conversation, Bryan Shankman discusses the evolution of his SaaS product, Tool Desk AI, focusing on the challenges and opportunities presented by platform dependencies, the innovative features of their AI-driven lead qualification tool, and the streamlined onboarding process for home service businesses. He also shares insights on marketing strategies and offers valuable advice for aspiring SaaS entrepreneurs.
takeaways

• Tool Desk started with a focus on home services and lead qualification.
• The initial product was inspired by a need for ringless voicemail systems.
• Pricing is strategically set at $149/month for the Jobber plug-in.
• Customer support is highly personalized, with direct communication from founders.
• The company is 100% bootstrapped, allowing for thoughtful financial decisions.
• Cold outbound marketing has been effective for customer acquisition.
• Building a product that fills gaps in existing platforms is crucial.
• Platform risk is a significant concern for businesses relying on third-party services.
• Future-proofing involves diversifying product offerings and reducing dependency on a single platform.
• The founders prioritize building something people want and scaling thoughtfully. The value proposition of Tool Desk AI is to fill marketing automation gaps.
• Platform dependency can pose significant risks for SaaS businesses.
• Tool Desk AI acts as a 24/7 sales representative for capturing leads.
• AI technology is being utilized to enhance lead qualification processes.
• Onboarding for home service businesses is designed to be frictionless and quick.
• The AI is trained on each customer's website to provide tailored interactions.
• Even if you're doing B2B, like saving commercial kitchens on cost, customer feedback is crucial for success.
• Marketing strategies include cold outreach and SEO optimization.
• Building a SaaS product requires a strong understanding of coding or a capable partner.
• Entrepreneurs should only pursue SaaS if they have a clear market need and potential customer interest

Guest Introduction

• Mark Williams-Cook: Director of Kanda (formerly Candour SEO agency)
• Creator of Also Asked, a search intent research tool
• Publisher of Core Updates Newsletter
• Host of SEO Patent Podcast
• 20+ years of SEO experience

Key Topics Covered

Current Google Search "Meta"

• Google's algorithm favors brand-like signals over traditional relevance
• Example: The Vatican website ranking for CBD gummies after being hacked
• Mark describes this as "a bandaid for the shortfalls that have been magnified in Google's algorithm because of Gen.ai"

Content Creation Strategy

• Video-first approach: "Start at video and work backwards" using transcription tools
• Particularly effective for client information: "If you are having to get information, especially from clients, sometimes trying to get clients to write an article is like getting blood out of a stone"
• Allows natural expertise to flow: "They will happily talk your ear off"
• Tools turn video into written content without "regurgitating stuff"

User Knowledge Levels

• Google has patents for understanding user expertise through search patterns
• Demonstrated in People Also Ask (PAA) results showing different questions based on perceived knowledge
• Example: Car dealership knowledge levels
  • Novice: "Red car under $20k near me"
  • Intermediate: "2024 Honda Civic MPG vs Toyota Corolla"
  • Expert: "Civic Type R torque curve comparison"

Google Query Classification

• Google classifies queries into distinct semantic categories
• These classifications determine which SERP features appear
• Additional classifiers like "local intent" and "explicit local intent" work alongside these categories
• Mark is developing a tool to predict which category a query falls into

Evolution of SERP Features

• AI Overviews: Likely to eventually replace featured snippets
  • More dynamic and nuanced answers
  • Google reported 90% cost reduction in generating them
• Featured Snippets: Currently coexist with AI overviews
• People Also Ask (PAA): Critical for Google's query understanding
  • Mentioned in DOJ trial as part of Google's "induction loop"
  • Allow Google to understand different interpretations of the same query
  • Localization feature coming to Also Asked tool

The Future of Search

• Prediction: Shift from users doing research to AI agents doing it for them
• "I think we are going to have a fundamental shift of rather than people doing their own research..."
• Advantage to companies that own hardware (Google, Apple, Microsoft)
• Privacy concerns will diminish as convenience increases

SEO Tools Mentioned

• Also Asked: Mark's tool for analyzing PAA data
• Screaming Frog: For automated content analysis
• ChatGPT API: For content gap analysis
• Perplexity: AI search tool Mark recommends
• 11 Labs: Voice cloning technology (mentioned in context of potential misuse)
• Storm: Stanford's agentic model for scientific paper creation

Technical SEO Insights

• Google uses binary trust systems for many technical signals
• "If you get them all wrong, it's not like Google will trust you a bit less. They just have a very simple thing of, well, you don't seem to know what you're doing."
• Site reputation abuse handled manually rather than algorithmically
• Example of PageRank evolution: still used but significantly modified from original patent

People Referenced

• Mordy Oberstein: Mentioned regarding brand discussions
• Gary Illyes ("Garyish"): Google representative
• Danny Sullivan: Google Search Liaison
• Darren Shaw: Discussed query categories with Mark
• Arnoud Hellman: Provided exa...

In this conversation, Jeremy Rivera of Community Clean Links and SEO Arcade interviews Angshuman Rudra, a product manager at TapClicks, discussing the company's marketing operations platform, the intricacies of ETL processes, and the challenges of product management in a SaaS environment.

Angshuman shares insights on customer needs, market trends, and the importance of sales feedback in shaping product development. He's been heading up the creation and product management of their new TapDataMax product, and shared a lot of detail on the way Tapclicks views the "movement" of data. The discussion also touches on the evolving terminology in marketing technology, the role of AI in data management, and the future roadmap for TapClicks, including new features and integrations.

In this conversation, Jeremy Cohen, founder of Vooz an Omegle alternative in the anonymous video chatting space, discusses the journey of creating bootstrapping and self-motivating. He shares insights on the unique selling propositions of Vooz, including AI moderation and user engagement features.
The discussion covers the challenges of bootstrapping a startup, marketing strategies for user acquisition, and the importance of building a strong team. Jeremy also emphasizes the significance of taking action and starting with design, as well as the potential for monetization and growth in the SaaS space.
Take Aways

• Vooz aims to innovate in the anonymous video chat space with AI moderation.
• User engagement features like screen sharing and games are key to Vooz's strategy.
• Bootstrapping has been essential for Vooz's development and team formation.
• Finding motivated co-founders can be challenging but crucial for success.
• SEO and PPC are primary marketing strategies for user acquisition.
• Influencer partnerships can drive initial traffic but should be complemented by SEO efforts.
• Monetization opportunities are abundant once a user base is established.
• Starting with design helps in attracting talent and building a vision.
• AI moderation is a significant technical achievement for Vooz.
• Taking action and starting somewhere is vital for aspiring entrepreneurs.