
Trigger Strategy
Tom Kerwin and Corissa Nunn
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Top 10 Trigger Strategy Episodes
Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Trigger Strategy episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Trigger Strategy for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Trigger Strategy episode by adding your comments to the episode page.

101: What's NOT emergent?
Trigger Strategy
04/13/25 • 33 min
We often talk about things being emergent in business, strategy, and life at large.
The problem is, emergence can be kind of a pain to wrap your head around. And we were wondering: what if the starting point is what's NOT emergent? Does that help clarify what IS emergent?
So we sat down in the garden and chatted it through.
We landed on the discipline of conversion rate optimisation as an example of a business area where an understanding of emergence (and its opposite, if you could call it that) is fundamental to success or failure.
Our conclusion was that it was indeed a helpful conversation, but we want to know – what do you think?
Linky goodness:
- Andrew Anderson's website: https://testingdiscipline.com/
- Andrew Anderson's story about Comic Sans: https://cxl.com/blog/organizational-push-back/
- Dave Snowden and Cynefin: https://cynefin.io/wiki/Cynefin
- Signals, Stories, Options: https://triggerstrategy.substack.com/p/signals-stories-options
- Pivot Triggers: card front | back
- Multiverse Mapping: card front | back
- Tom's Pip Decks card deck, Innovation Tactics: https://pipdecks.com/products/innovation-tactics
- Master Multiverse Mapping (online course): https://multiversemapping.com/
- Episode 39 about Bounded Applicability https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/663109cbcff31b0012ae9306
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085: High on agency?
Trigger Strategy
11/19/24 • 21 min
The concept of “High Agency” burst into the online leadership conversation in recent years. And it sounds good, doesn’t it? Who wouldn’t want to be high agency? Who wouldn’t want to have high agency employees?
As with many such “obviously good” concepts, turns out it’s not that simple.
In this episode, Corissa and Tom also look at the other side of hopes for high agency.
We talk about how some leaders might wish for high agency employees, but would balk at what a very high agency employee would do in reality.
And we talk about what you need to know if you’re an employee being expected to demonstrate more agency.
And we signpost a whole load of lovely rabbit holes to go explore.
“imagine that I could sell you a magic pill and you could give it to two of your employees and overnight they would suddenly become high agency. What would be the first thing you’d notice was different when you went into work the next day?”Linky Goodness
- Mushfiqa Monica Jalamuddin - the Estuarine coach you’re looking for
- Estuarine Mapping
- Multiverse Mapping (free course)
- Venkatesh Rao’s Gervais Principle
- Jeffrey Pfeffer’s Leadership BS
- Brendan Reid’s Stealing the Corner Office
- Luca Dellanna’s 100 Truths You Will Learn Too Late
Timecodes to help you navigate
00:00 Introduction
00:28 What is High Agency?
01:10 The Serenity Prayer
02:00 Estuarine Mapping is the Serenity Prayer in map form
03:45 High agency as a positive trait ... & its permeation into leadership mythology
04:06 “Sound like a challenger, but be an obedient drone”
06:20 Perhaps it’s about not waiting for permission, while also not doing silly things
08:09 Tools to create higher agency if you want that – including Multiverse Mapping
13:01 What if the traits we want in leaders are not the traits that get you promoted?
17:31 A magic question for you to use
18:34 What would have to be true for that stupid thing to make a lot of sense?
19:42 “You can choose the game you play, but not its rules”
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075: Effectual thinking vs causal thinking
Trigger Strategy
09/20/24 • 32 min
We recorded this one on a whim and we didn't have our microphone with a little hat on it, so the wind noise makes a guest appearance. Apologies – return to quality sound soon.
Corissa grabbed a snippet from an article:
Over at one of my favourite blogs, Common Cog, Cedric Chin writes that there is a style of thinking that is reliably exhibited by successful entrepreneurs. It is called effectual thinking, and it's the type of improvisatory, reality based thinking that follows the question, what effects can be produced with the spread of resources in front of me? He contrasts this with causal thinking, which is the opposite pattern, looking towards an ideal outcome and then trying to work backwards to derive the actions required to eventually bring about that future.And this inspired us to talk through effectual thinking. We go on a blustery journey through chefs in high-end experimental kitchens, John Boyd's Snowmobiling, Mr Beast, Steve Jobs, Estuarine Framework and Small Bets.
The big question: can effectual thinking give you a happier, healthier way to operate, or is it just the case that, as Andrew Wilkinson put it, "most highly successful people are “just a walking anxiety disorder, harnessed for productivity”?
Linky goodness:
Sasha Chapin's article: https://sashachapin.substack.com/p/our-perfume-line-is-here
Cedric Chin's Common Cog: https://commoncog.com/when-action-beats-prediction/
Vaughn Tan's Uncertainty Mindset: https://uncertaintymindset.org/
Snowmobiling podcast episode: https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/072-granularity-part-2-snowmobiling
Do 100 Thing podcast episode: https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/043-do-100-thing
Innovation Tactics: https://bit.ly/innovation-10
Small Bets: https://smallbets.com/
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079: Speculative use cases
Trigger Strategy
10/04/24 • 33 min
We talk about a question posed in Innovation Tactics Slack - about a stakeholder who’s skeptical that design research can help with genuine innovation, and wants to create speculative use cases instead.
Topics we touch on:
- Are speculative use cases a "thing"? Is it helpful to imagine people doing something that's just not happening today? Like, 500 years ago, nobody got their shoelace trapped in an escalator. In 2003, nobody was planning out how they'd price their product on the App Store.
- Is it reasonable to be skeptical about design research?
- What do you do when you're working with someone who's already decided what they want and isn't interested in evidence?
- Radical repurposing as an alternative – follow the pathfinders
- Snowmobiling as a possible approach – remix the adjacent possible
- Jamming with your stakeholder to understand and clarify (with the side effect that you might expose gaps or incoherence)
- Bias in research
Some quotes:
"Getting a shoelace trapped in an escalator - that's not a thing that happened 500 years ago."
"Just doing something because you think it's cool is totally valid as a way of operating a business"
"Everyone who has a brilliant idea thinks that their idea is the next big thing. And everyone but one in a million is wrong about that. And even the one in a million tends to be wrong about exactly how it's going to work."
"Play Doh was invented, not as a toy for kids, but as a putty for removing coal soot from walls. It was repurposed into the kids' toy after people stopped having coal fires"
"You're very unlikely to invent something novel that works. You're very likely to find somebody doing something novel that you can scale."
"You can absolutely go and do the best interviewing in the world and not come back with anything that's going to be a breakthrough innovation for your company. It may be that your company is not positioned to make a breakthrough innovation."
"this is the trap that so many people fall into and I've heard it more times than I can count. It's that need to educate the market. Do not, do not try, red flag, back away slowly or run, run speedily off into the distance."
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092: Twenty Twenty (Meta) Four
Trigger Strategy
01/05/25 • 34 min
Brief notes today. This is kind of a wrap up of 2024 but not like others.
TL;DR: a garden decking disaster becomes a meaningful framing for rearchitecting our business.
What metaphor can you use to reframe your 2024?
Linky Goodness
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102: Road Signs, Rapid Prototypes, and Productive Confusion
Trigger Strategy
04/26/25 • 35 min
While sipping homegrown bay leaf tea, we explore how road signs, surprises, and deliberate confusion can unlock better thinking.
From missing signs under railway bridges to the tangled journey of Google Glass, we trace how aporia — the ancient art of being productively confused — can help you build faster, align better, and see the hidden struggles that are gonna derail your projects.
- Why some signs should disappear to make things flow better
- How "productive confusion" can trigger better decision making
- What Google Glass, magic roundabouts, and fast food kitchens have in common
- How to rapid prototype a billion-dollar product... with clay and wire
- The curse of "pseudolignment" and how to catch it before it wrecks your team
- The Align-o-matic: an emerging tool to help you spot hidden assumptions early
Linky goodness:
- Magic Roundabout (Swindon, UK): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)
- "A symphony of efficiency, not a waste of motion" from The Founder: https://youtu.be/F-7cjdtrQ9Y?si=3eyzPlVq71Ws-R8o
- Tom Chi rapid prototyping: https://youtu.be/d5_h1VuwD6g?si=h29WjP8xvX3vxPak
- Rory Sutherland on defensive decision-making: https://fs.blog/defensive-decision-making/
- Zeigarnik Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeigarnik_effect
- We may have confused Zeigarnik with Ovsiankina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovsiankina_effect
Innovation Tactics cards we mentioned:
- Language Market Fit: front | back
- Solve for Distribution: front | back
- Hard Test Easy Life: front | back
- Time Machine: front | back
Get your copy of Innovation Tactics: https://pipdecks.com/products/innovation-tactics
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078: Criticisms of selling before building
Trigger Strategy
10/01/24 • 13 min
In the last episode, we introduced Rob Snyder's framing of finding your repeatable case study instead of building your tech product.
This time, we step back into the Pain Cave to talk through some of the criticisms that Rob (and we) often face when we suggest the approach we do.
We think they're misunderstandings of what we're advocating, but they're also sound points.
First, we consider the scolding that we should follow a proper research and design process and build the right thing at high quality from day one, not throw spaghetti at the wall. Sometimes this is true, but sometimes it's just not possible.
Second, we face the fear of selling "vapourware" – nobody wants to follow in Elizabeth Holmes' footsteps, promising stuff that can't be realised (Theranos). Absolutely right! But that's not at all what we're recommending.
And all this brings us to the concept of Bounded Applicability. No ideas are suitable for all projects, products, etc. So how can you think about what's appropriate in a given situation?
Linky goodness:
- Bounded Applicability: https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/663109cbcff31b0012ae9306
- My diagram showing some methods' Bounded Applicability: https://www.notion.so/Pitch-Provocations-54ad05d5740e451db0fa82479debeb91
- Previous episode about Rob Snyder: https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/077-do-you-have-to-spend-years-in-the-pain-cave
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091: Antifragile Prioritisation
Trigger Strategy
12/26/24 • 57 min
A lot of tech companies have bought into the idea of Build > Measure > Learn.
But the "Build" bit always takes longer than anyone's anticipating, so the "Measure" and the "Learn" get squeezed out.
Even though many of the people working in that system aren't happy that they're building crap and would love to be measuring and learning.
In this episode, we talk about using Multiverse Mapping to help you prioritise your work so you benefit from uncertainty instead of being blown up by it.
With real world examples, references to angry Lebanese people, a detour through performance management and another celebrity monster,
We get back to Antifragile Prioritisation at 23:10.
At the beginning of any project, we know the least we'll ever know about this project. So we should assume that we're going to learn important things as we do the project. But you can't just wait until you know the answers, because you'll only learn them through doing the project.
Expirere: you need either experience or experimentation.
In brief: create a model for how you're going to succeed, break that down into a level of granularity where you can identify critical behaviours, identify where you're facing the most uncertainty, then probe there first. Sounds trickier than it is – if you use Multiverse Mapping it's quite simple.
Uncertainty is not the same as risk – uncertainty is generative, so you'll often get new, exciting ideas by running into the uncertainty. AND you'll also reduce your risk.
And then we kinda debate around how much of the process of Multiverse Mapping can be explicit vs implicit. You do need to create a record for accountability, but don't make the mistake of trying to write down everything. Like all processes that support emergence: it's not that everything will just happen by itself, it's that you make something explicit and you get a happy side effect of updating lots of your tacit (shared) understanding.
And we talk about using your Multiverse Map to set Pivot Triggers, which enable you to talk more strategically with stakeholders.
And so you won't be doing Build > Measure > Learn – you'll be doing all three at the same time.
Finally, we talk about using Multiverse Maps at a higher level of granularity to help you decide between different strategies.
Linky Goodness
- Master Mutliverse Mapping: https://triggerstrategy.com/multiverse-mapping
- Satirical Skin in the Game review: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/feb/25/skin-in-the-game-by-nassim-nicholas-taleb-digested-read
- One of Luca Dellanna's introductions to antifragility: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS1CqSfxF4o
- Estimating Complexity by Liz Keogh: https://lizkeogh.com/2013/07/21/estimating-complexity/
- Vaughn Tan's Generative Uncertainty: https://vaughntan.org/generative-uncertainty
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069: The alignment problem (not the AI alignment problem)
Trigger Strategy
08/06/24 • 42 min
In which we coin the word "bungus" ...
If you've ever complained about misalignment, or rallied people with the cry that "we need to get aligned", then this one's for you. Of course the feeling of alignment is a pleasant one, but what if you're in one of the situations where seeking alignment is actually hurting you?
Corissa and Tom unpack the concept of alignment, including some discussion about different kinds of alignment and misalignment, some stories from the real world about situations where strategic misalignment can be good, and some references to our episode about the bees (episode 44: https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/044-the-one-with-the-bees)
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103: Competence, control, and consequences
Trigger Strategy
05/10/25 • 35 min
You were hired to fix it. You did! Customers are happier. The company made millions. Your reward? They shut it all down.
We sit on a garden bench and talk about those times when you feel like you're being punished for doing your job well.
It turns out you can't mostly change a narrative with data. Your choices are power, influence, or acceptance.
We share real stories, reflect on past mistakes, and explore safer (?) ways to inspire change when truth-telling gets you sidelined. Along the way: multiverse mapping, toddler psychology, and why the best performing landing pages often don't stay live.
Books & Articles:
- Stealing the Corner Office by Brendan Reid
- Power: Why Some People Have It—and Others Don’t by Jeffrey Pfeffer
- Why Design is Hard by Scott Berkun
- Why Your Org Doesn’t Want Optimization to Succeed by Andrew Anderson
- How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
- Ramit Sethi’s framing: “If someone is succeeding doing something that looks stupid... what do they know that I don’t?”
Frameworks & Tools:
- “Show the thing to change the thing” – concept from John Willshire
- Wardley Mapping
- Multiverse Mapping (Trigger Strategy Substack)
- Play the hand you're dealt – "Don't start with what you want people to do. Start with what people want to do." – Dave Trott
Character References:
- Wormtongue and Gandalf (Lord of the Rings) – models of influence
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FAQ
How many episodes does Trigger Strategy have?
Trigger Strategy currently has 103 episodes available.
What topics does Trigger Strategy cover?
The podcast is about Product, Marketing, Management, Entrepreneurship, Design, Research, Startup, Podcasts, Business, Copywriting and Strategy.
What is the most popular episode on Trigger Strategy?
The episode title '065: The inherent bigness of ideas' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Trigger Strategy?
The average episode length on Trigger Strategy is 30 minutes.
How often are episodes of Trigger Strategy released?
Episodes of Trigger Strategy are typically released every 3 days, 23 hours.
When was the first episode of Trigger Strategy?
The first episode of Trigger Strategy was released on Apr 13, 2021.
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