Thoughts on the Market
Morgan Stanley
Short, thoughtful and regular takes on recent events in the markets from a variety of perspectives and voices within Morgan Stanley.
1 Listener
All episodes
Best episodes
Top 10 Thoughts on the Market Episodes
Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Thoughts on the Market episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Thoughts on the Market for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Thoughts on the Market episode by adding your comments to the episode page.
Mike Wilson: A Sudden Drop for Stocks and Bonds
Thoughts on the Market
09/26/22 • 3 min
After last week’s Fed meeting and another rate hike, both stocks and bonds dropped back to June lows. The question is, will this turn to the downside continue to accelerate?
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Chief Investment Officer and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist for Morgan Stanley. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about the latest trends in the financial marketplace. It's Monday, September 26, at 11 a.m. in New York. So let's get after it.
Last week's Fed meeting gave us the 75 basis point hike most investors were expecting, and similar messaging to what we heard at Jackson Hole a month ago. In short, the Fed means business with inflation and is willing to do whatever it takes to combat it. So why was there such a dramatic reaction in the bond and stock markets? Were investors still hoping the Fed would make a dovish pivot? Whatever the reason, both stocks and bonds are right back to their June lows, with many bellwether stocks and treasuries even lower. As we wrote a few weeks ago, we think investor hopes for a Fed pivot were misplaced, and Chair Powell has now made that crystal clear.
Secondly, we noted last week that the only remaining hope for stocks would be if the bond market rallied at the back end on the view that the Fed was finally ahead of the curve and would win its fight against inflation, while slowing the economy materially. Instead, interest rates spiked higher, squelching any hopes for stocks. While 15.6x price earnings ratio is back to the June lows, that P/E still embeds what we think is a mispriced equity risk premium given the risk to earnings.
Said another way, with a Fed pivot now off the table, the path on bond and equity prices will come down to growth - economic growth for bonds and earnings growth for stocks. On both counts we are pessimistic, particularly on the latter as supported by our recent cuts to earnings forecasts. We have been discussing these forecasts with clients for the past several weeks and while most are in agreement that consensus 2023 earnings estimates are too high, there is still a debate on how much. Suffice it to say, we are at the low end of client expectations. Interestingly, recent economic data have kept the economic soft landing view alive, and interest rates have moved above our rates team's year end forecast. From an equity market standpoint, that means no relief for valuations as earnings come down. This is a major reason why stocks sank to their June lows on Friday.
Ultimately, we do think economic surprise data will likely disappoint again, but until it does there is no end in sight for the rise in 10 year yields, especially with the run off of the Fed's balance sheet increasing. As such, our rates team has raised its year end target for 10 year Treasury yields to 4% from 3.5%. This is a very tough backdrop for stocks and epitomizes our fire and ice thesis to a T. In other words, rising cost of capital and lower liquidity in the face of slower earnings growth or even outright declines.
Finally, the Fed's historically hawkish action has led to record strength in the U.S. dollar. On a year over year basis the dollar is now up 21% and still rising. Based on our analysis that every 1% change in the dollar has a .5% impact on S&P 500 earnings growth, fourth quarter S&P 500 earnings will face an approximate 10% headwind to growth all else equal. This is in addition to the other challenges we've been discussing for months, like the pay back in demand and higher cost from inflation to name a few.
Bottom line Part 2 of our Fire and ice thesis is now on full display, with rates and the U.S. dollar ratcheting higher, just as the negative revisions for earnings appear set to accelerate to the downside. In our view, the bear market in stocks will not be over until the S&P 500 reaches the range of our base and bear targets, i.e. 3000 to 3400 later this fall.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy Thoughts on the Market, please take a moment to rate and review us on the Apple Podcast app. It helps more people to find the show.
1 Listener
Macro Economy: The 2024 Outlook
Thoughts on the Market
11/14/23 • 8 min
As global growth takes a hit and inflation begins to cool, how does the road ahead look for central banks and investors? Chief Fixed Income Strategist Vishy Tirupattur hosts a roundtable with Chief Economist Seth Carpenter and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist Mike Wilson to discuss.
----- Transcript -----
Vishy Tirupattur: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I am Vishy Tirupattur, Morgan Stanley's Chief Fixed Income Strategist. Today on the podcast we'll be hosting a very special roundtable discussion on what is ahead for the global economy and markets by 2024. I am joined by my colleagues, Seth Carpenter, Global Chief Economist and Mike Wilson, Chief Investment Officer and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist. It's Monday, November 13th at 9 a.m. in New York.
Vishy Tirupattur: Thanks to both of you for taking the time to talk. We have a lot to cover, so I am going to go right into it. Seth, I want to start with the global economy. As you look ahead to 2024, how do you see the global economy evolving in terms of growth, inflation and monetary policy?
Seth Carpenter: Thanks, Vishy. As we look forward over the next couple of years, there are a few key themes that we're seeing in terms of growth, inflation and monetary policy. First, looks like global growth has stepped down this year relative to last year and we're expecting another modest step down in the global economy for 2024 and into 2025. Overall, what we're seeing in the developed market economies is restrictive monetary policy in general restraining growth, whereas we have much more mixed results in the emerging market world.
Inflation, though, is a clear theme around the world. Overall, we see the surge in inflation. That has been a theme in global markets for the past couple of years as having peaked and starting to come down. It's coming down primarily through consumer goods, but we do see that trend continuing over the next several years.
That backdrop of inflation having peaked and coming down along with weaker growth means that we're setting ourselves up for overall a bit of an easing cycle for monetary policy. We are looking for the Fed and the ECB each to start an easing cycle in June of this year. For the Fed, it's because we see growth slowing down and inflation continuing to track down along the path that we see and that the Fed will come around to seeing.
I would say the stark exception to this among developed market economies is the Bank of Japan. We have seen them already get to the de facto end of yield curve control. We think by the time we get to the January policy meeting, they will completely eliminate yield curve control formally and go from negative interest rate policy to zero interest rate policy. And then over the course of the next year or so, we think we're going to see very gradual, very tentative increases in the policy rate for Japan. So for every story, there's a little bit of a cross current going on.
Vishy Tirupattur: Can you talk about some of the vulnerabilities for the global economy? What worries you most about your central case, about the global economy?
Seth Carpenter: We put into the outlook a downside scenario where the current challenges in China, the risks, as we've said, of a debt deflation cycle, they really take over. What this would mean is that the policy response in beijing is insufficient to overcome the underlying dynamics there as debt is coming down, as inflation is weak and those things build on themselves. Kind of a smaller version of the lost decade of Japan. We think from there we could see some of that weakness just exported around the globe. And for us, that's one of the key downside risks to the global economy.
I'd say in the opposite direction, the upside risk is maybe some of the strength that we see in the United States is just more persistent than we realize. Maybe it's the case that monetary policy really hasn't done enough. And we just heard Chair Powell talk about the possibility that if inflation doesn't come down or the economy doesn't slow enough, they could do more. And so we built in an alternate scenario to the upside where the US economy is just fundamentally stronger. Let me pass it back to you Vishy.
Vishy Tirupattur: Thank you Seth. Mike, next I'd like to go to you. 2023 was a challenging year for earnings growth, but we saw significant multiple expansion. How do you expect 2024 to turn out for the global equity markets? What are the key challenges and opportunities you see for equity markets in 2024?
Mike Wilson: 2023 was obviously, you know, kind of a challenging year, I think, for a lot of equity managers because of this incredible dispersion that we saw between, kind of, how economies performed around the world and how that bled into company performance. And it was very different r...
The Growing Importance of Where Data Lives
Thoughts on the Market
04/03/24 • 4 min
Consumers are increasingly sensitive about where their personal data is being processed and stored. The head of our European Telecom team explains the complexity around data sovereignty and why investors should care about the issue.
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I’m Emmet Kelly, Head of Morgan Stanley’s European Telecom team. Today I’ll be talking about data sovereignty.
It’s Wednesday, April 3rd, at 5pm in London.
It’s never been easier to manage your life with just a click of a button or tap on the screen. You can take a photo, upload it to social media, and share it with friends and family. You can pay your bills online – from utilities and groceries to that personal splurge. You can even renew your library card or driver’s license or access your emails from years and years ago.
But where is all this data stored? Our recent work shows that consumers are increasingly sensitive about this issue. Among European consumers, for example, more than 80 percent think it’s either very or somewhat important to know where their data is stored. And two-thirds of European consumers would like their data to be stored in their country of residence. A further 20 percent would be willing to pay more to store data locally, especially consumers in Spain and Germany.
These results suggest that in the future, processing and storage of European data is more likely to be near shored rather than be based abroad.
A few weeks ago, I came on this podcast to talk about our expectation that European data centers will grow five-fold over the next decade. Our research showed that key drivers would include increased cloudification, artificial intelligence and data sovereignty. We believe the most under-appreciated driver of this exponential growth is the question of where data is stored and processed. This is data sovereignty; and it’s a concern for European consumers.
Data sovereignty means having legal control and jurisdiction over the storage and processing of data. It also means that data is subject to the laws of the country where that data was gathered and processed. More than 100 countries have data sovereignty laws in place, and laws governing the transfer of data between countries will only proliferate from here.
In Europe, for example, we estimate that less than 50 per cent of cloud data is stored locally, within the European continent. The remainder is stored either in the US – notably in Virginia, which is the key data center hub in the United States; or, to a lesser extent, in lower-cost locations within Emerging Markets or in Asia.
Complicating the issue of data sovereignty further are the so-called “extraterritorial laws” or "extra-territorial jurisdiction." These dictate the legal ability of a government to exercise authority beyond its normal geographic boundaries. From a data perspective, even if data is stored and/or processed in Europe, it may also be subject to extraterritorial laws. Essentially, foreign, non-European governments could still gain access to European data.
This is something to keep in mind as we put data sovereignty in the context of the transition to a multipolar world – a major theme which Morgan Stanley Research has been mapping out since 2019. The rewiring of the global economy is well under way and data security is a key imperative for policy makers against the backdrop of accelerating tech diffusion and also geopolitical tensions. Our baseline de-risking scenario for the rewiring of global trade extends to data security and implies a robust case for the near shoring of European data and data center growth.
With so little of the European data pie stored or processed in Europe, the potential upside from near-shoring is considerable. Bottom line, we think investors should pay close attention to the issue of data sovereignty, especially as it plays out in Europe over the coming decade.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.
Spring IMF Meetings Spark Cautious Optimism
Thoughts on the Market
05/13/24 • 7 min
Our experts highlight their biggest takeaways from the International Monetary Fund’s recent meetings, including which markets around the globe are on an upward trajectory.
----- Transcript -----
Simon Waever: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Simon Waever, Morgan Stanley's Global Head of Emerging Markets, Sovereign Credit and Latin America Fixed income strategy.
Neville Mandimika: And I'm Neville Mandimika from the Emerging Markets Credit Strategy team with a focus on Central and Eastern Europe, Middle East and Africa.
Simon Waever: And on this episode of Thoughts on the Market, we'll discuss what we believe investors should take away from the International Monetary Fund’s Spring Meetings in Washington, DC.
It's Monday, May 13th at 10am in New York.
Neville Mandimika: And it's 3 pm in London.
To give some context, every year, the Spring Meetings of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank provide a forum for country officials, private sector market participants and academics to discuss critical global economic issues. This time around, the meetings were held against a backdrop, as you might imagine, of rising geopolitical tensions, monetary policy pivots, and limited fiscal space.
Simon, we were both at the event, and I wanted to discuss what we took away from our own meetings, as well as discussions with other market participants. How would you describe the mood this time around compared to the annual meetings in October last year?
Simon Waever: So, I would say sentiment was cautiously optimistic. Of course, it did happen in the backdrop of inflation; the first quarter not being as well behaved as everyone had hoped for. So that really put the focus on central banks being more cautious in their easing paths, which is actually a point the IMF also made back in October.
But away from that, growth has held up better than expected. In the US for sure, but also more globally. So, I would say it could have been a lot worse.
Neville Mandimika: Was it just me or there was a particular focus on fiscals this time around? What did you make of this?
Simon Waever: No, there was for sure and interestingly it was focused on both developed economies and developing economies, which isn't usually the case. And I think it's clear that not only the IMF but also the markets are worried that we're still some distance away from stabilizing debt in most countries. And not only that but that it's going to be hard to close that gap due to lower growth and spending pressures. So that meant that there was a lot of discussions on how much term premier there needs to be in government bond curves and whether they need to be steeper.
Neville Mandimika: It's often very difficult to talk about, you know, the global economic dynamics without talking about AI, which seems to be the catchphrase this year. How is the fund viewing this in light of the potential for the global economy?
Simon Waever: So, the issue is that the IMF has often had to revise down medium-term growth outlook; something that it pretty much had to do every year since 2010, actually. And today it stands at only 2.8 globally. If you look at the IMF's publications, they attribute the key reasons to this to misallocation of capital and labor.
But what they also did this time around was look at what could turn it around; and maybe unsurprisingly structural reforms that reduces that misallocation would be the larger potential factor that could boost this up again. They estimate about around 1.2 per cent of GDP. But then to your point the adoption of AI is seen as another new driver.
Of course, it's also a lot more uncertain because there needs to be a lot of a lot more work done around it. But they think it could add nearly one percentage point to global growth in a positive scenario.
But Neville, with that, let's dig deeper into the issues of developing countries which, after all, is the focus of the meetings. The cost of debt is rising, which has led to some countries experience debt distress. But from our side, we've also frequently pushed back against the idea that there is a growing debt crisis. So, coming back from the meetings, what kind of debt restructuring progress has been made? And how do you see it playing out for the remainder of the year?
Neville Mandimika: Yeah, interestingly, there was still plenty of talk in the meetings about EM (emerging market) debt crisis, but the backdrop to the conversation was significantly better this time around compared to October 2023.
Since last year, we've seen progress from Suriname, which is a small part of the Emerging Market Bond Index, close its restructuring, Zambia reaching a deal with private bondholders with the expectation that all of this could be buttoned up by June this year, multiple proposals in Sri Lanka and Ukraine making some progress.
This gives me some hope tha...
Vishy Tirupattur: Corporate Credit Divided by Quality
Thoughts on the Market
10/04/23 • 3 min
Fundamentals for investment-grade credit remain resilient and steady, while below-grade credit continues to deteriorate.
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I am Vishy Tirupattur, Morgan Stanley's Chief Fixed Income Strategist. Along with my colleagues bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about our views on corporate credit markets. It's Wednesday, October 4th at 10 a.m. in New York.
With the second quarter earnings now in the rearview mirror, we look at how credit fundamentals have evolved and what that means for credit investors. Quality based divergence in credit fundamental performance continues to bear out, reinforcing our preference for higher quality within the credit universe.
Investment grade credit fundamentals remain resilient. Overall, issuers have held up reasonably well despite moving past the peak in the strength of balance sheet metrics. While certain metrics have started to deteriorate, most notably interest coverage as a result of higher interest rates, leverage ratios have stayed well-contained despite the uptick in debt levels.
We are calling for wider spreads in investment grade credit, as the market might be overly discounting the odds of a recession, and we had already priced for a smooth soft landing. While current spread levels do not leave much room for further compression, current yield levels remain attractive at multi year highs. These levels present both a source of attractive income and potential price upside as growth and inflation cool, particularly heading into a Fed pause and potential rate cutting cycle, which our economists expect will start in March 2024.
While one could argue that with spreads at tight levels, the yield demand could simply shift to treasuries. However, with very low dollar prices on most investment grade bonds and the macro optimism around a soft landing, we think investment grade credit will remain well placed for some time to come. In-place fundamentals remain strong and thus far are not flashing signs of alarm to argue for long-duration buyers of credit to shift into treasuries.
On the other end of the grade spectrum, in the below investment grade segment, fundamentals have continued to deteriorate. Earnings growth turned negative, coverage metrics fell, cash to debt ratios declined, and leverage rose. The weakness was widespread across sectors, with materials and consumer discretionary sectors seeing the largest year-over-year increase in leverage. Within our high yield fundamental sample, median interest coverage dropped for a third consecutive quarter, now more than a turn below its peak in 2022. The trend was similar for loans as well, while surging interest costs were the primary driver, weaker earnings were also at play.
The concentration of "tail" cohorts is rising. In high yield, the vulnerable cohort, that is companies with low coverage and low cash debt ratios, reached 5% in size, which is record high post global financial crisis. In loans, the coverage tail inflected higher for the first time in two years.
Clearly, quality based divergence continues to play out in credit fundamentals, which aligns with our recommendation to be defensive and stay invested in the higher quality segments of the credit markets.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.
Three Investment Themes for 2024 and Beyond
Thoughts on the Market
01/17/24 • 3 min
Elections, geopolitical risks and rate cuts are driving markets in the short term. But there are three trends that could provide long-term investment opportunities.
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Michael Zezas, Global Head of Fixed Income and Thematic Research for Morgan Stanley. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about three key investment themes for 2024. It's Wednesday, January 17th at 10 a.m. in New York.
Markets will have plenty of potential near-term catalysts to contend with in 2024. There's elections, geopolitical risks as tensions rise with regional conflicts in Europe and the Middle East, and key debates about the timing and pace of central bank rate cuts. We'll be working hard to understand those debates, which will influence how markets perform this year.
But what if you're thinking a bit longer term? If that's you, we've got you covered. As it's become our annual tradition, we’re rolling out three secular themes that Morgan Stanley research will be focused on developing collaborative, in-depth research for, in an effort to identify ways for investors to create potential alpha in their portfolio for many years to come.
The first theme is our newest one, longevity. It's the idea that recent breakthroughs in health care could accelerate the trend toward longer and higher quality human lives. To that end, my research colleagues have been focused on the potential impacts of innovations that include GLP-1 drugs and smart chemo. Further, there's reason to believe similar breakthroughs are on the horizon given the promise of AI assisted pharmaceutical development. And when people lead longer lives, you'd expect their economic behavior to change. So there's potential investment implications not just for the companies developing health care solutions, but also for consumer companies, as our team expects that, for example, people may consume 20 to 30% less calories on a daily basis. And even asset managers are impacted, as people start to manage their investments differently, in line with financing a longer life span. In short, there's great value in understanding the ripple effects into the broader investment world.
The second theme is a carryover from last year, the ongoing attempts to decarbonize the world and transition to clean energy. Recent policies like the Inflation Reduction Act in the US include substantial subsidies for clean energy development. And so we think it's clear that governments and companies will continue to push in this direction. The result may be a tripling of renewable energy capacity by 2030. And while this is happening, climate change is still asserting itself and investment should pick up in physical capital to protect against the impact. So all these efforts put in motion substantial amounts of capital, meaning investors need to be aware of the sectors which will be crimped by new costs and others that will see the benefits of that spend, such as clean energy.
Our third theme is also a carryover, the development of AI. In 2023, companies we deemed AI enablers, or ones who were actively developing and seeking to deploy that technology, gained about $6 trillion in stock market value. In 2024, we think we'll be able to start seeing how much of that is hype and how much of that is reality, with enduring impacts that can create long term value for investors. We expect clear use cases and impacts to productivity and company's bottom lines to come more into focus and plan active research to that end in the financials, health care, semiconductor, internet and software sectors, just to name a few. So stay tuned. We think these debates could define asset performance for many years to come. And so we're dedicated to learning as much as we can on them this year and passing on the lessons and market insights to you.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, please share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague, or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more people find the show.
Mike Wilson: All Eyes on Earnings
Thoughts on the Market
07/10/23 • 3 min
As earnings season kicks off, market valuations continue to trend high based on major growth expectations. However, investors may want to keep an eye on liquidity.
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Chief Investment Officer and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist for Morgan Stanley. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about the latest trends in the financial marketplace. It's Monday, July 10th at 11 a.m. in New York. So let's get after it.
With year to date U.S. equity returns driven nearly 100% by higher valuations, the market either doesn't care about earnings or it expects a major reacceleration in growth both later this year and next. One might argue that the higher valuations are anticipating the end of the Fed's rate hiking campaign, even though the bond market doesn't seem to agree with that conclusion, given the recent rise in yields. In short, the price earnings ratio for the S&P 500 is up approximately 15%, and with interest rates up this year, the equity risk premium has collapsed by 100 basis points to its lowest level since the tech bubble era.
With second quarter earnings season beginning this week, 'better than feared' likely isn't going to cut it anymore. While earnings results so far this year remain right on track for the sharp earnings recession we forecast, we don't expect second quarter earnings to disappoint expectations in aggregate, given second quarter estimates have now been revised lower by 7.5% since the beginning of the year. Instead, we would point out that the consensus bottom-up second quarter EPS forecast for the S&P 500 is -7% year over year, hardly exciting. Furthermore, the consensus pushed out the trough earnings per share growth quarter from the first quarter to the second quarter over the last three months. We expect this trend to continue through the balance of the year, which would also be in line with our forecast. In other words, no big second half recovery as the consensus and valuations now expect. More specifically, third quarter is when our forecast starts to meaningfully diverge from the consensus. This means the key driver for stocks during this earnings season will come via company guidance for the out quarter rather than the second quarter results. We suspect some companies will begin to walk down the estimates, while others will continue to tell a more optimistic story. In short, this earnings season should matter more than the prior two, and should provide significant alpha opportunities for investors in terms of both longs and shorts.
In our view, the year to date multiple expansion has occurred for a couple of reasons beyond earnings growth optimism. One, excess liquidity provided by global central banks amid a weaker U.S. dollar and the FDIC bail out of depositors. And two, excitement around artificial intelligence’s potential impact on productivity and earnings growth. On the liquidity front we think that support is starting to fade. One way of measuring liquidity is global money supply in U.S. dollars. One of the reasons we turned tactically bullish last October was due to our view that the U.S. dollar was topping. This, along with the China reopening and the Bank of Japan's monetary policy actions, added close to $7 trillion to global money supply over the following six months. We've pointed out previously that the rate of change on global money supply is correlated to the rate of change on global equities, as well as the S&P 500. Over the past few months, global money supply in U.S. dollars has begun to shrink again, just as the Treasury begins to issue over a trillion dollars of supply to restock its coffers post a debt ceiling resolution last month.
As an early indicator that market liquidity is fading, nominal ten-year yields broke out last week above the psychologically important 4% level, and real rates are making new cycle highs. Interest rate volatility also picked up as uncertainty about the Fed's next moves increased. Neither higher interest rate levels nor volatility are generally conducive to higher equity valuations.
Bottom line, with earnings season upon us, we aren't expecting any fireworks from the earnings reports directly. However, with expectations for growth now much higher than six months ago, we suspect it will be a 'sell the news' event for many stocks, no matter what the companies post, as the market begins to look ahead to what is likely going to disappoint lofty expectations.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy Thoughts on the Market, please take a moment to rate and review us on the Apple Podcasts app. It helps more people to find the show.
U.S. Consumer: Mixed Holiday Spending Expectations
Thoughts on the Market
11/21/23 • 6 min
Third-quarter consumer spending was strong, but a growing gap between middle- and higher-income consumers may affect the holiday shopping season.
----- Transcript -----
Michelle Weaver: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Michelle Weaver from the Morgan Stanley U.S Equity Strategy Team.
Sarah Wolfe: And I'm Sarah Wolfe and the U.S Economics Team.
Michelle Weaver: On this special episode of the podcast, we wanted to give you an update on the U.S. consumer and a preview of our holiday spending expectations this year. It's Tuesday, November 21st at 10 a.m. in New York.
Michelle Weaver: Sarah, recent data releases and your modeling suggests that U.S. consumer spending will begin to slow more meaningfully in 2024 and 2025. And you've argued that the slowdown in consumption is driven by a cooling labor market which weighs on real disposable income and elevated rates, putting further pressure on debt service costs. Given all this, would you say that the U.S. consumer is still healthy as we approach the holiday season and the end of the year?
Sarah Wolfe: You're exactly right. Consumer spending in the third quarter was very strong, and we know that there's going to be some more of that underlying momentum pulled into the fourth quarter, which includes holiday shopping season. Just last week, we got the October retail sales report, which did show a notable deceleration in consumer spending from the third quarter into the fourth quarter, but still positive retail sales. There are a few reasons, however, that, you know, we take pause at saying that the holiday shopping season is going to be very strong. The first is that there is this growing discrepancy between the health of a struggling lower middle income household versus the solid higher income household. The second is the expiration of the student loan forbearance. We know that about half of borrowers have started making payments as of October. And the third is the wallet shift away from goods and toward services that will impact the type of holiday spending. I would like to hone in on this discrepancy between the health of the lower middle income household and higher income households. We've highlighted that lower middle income households have been pulling back more in discretionary and they've been trading down as they're disproportionately being hit by tighter lending standards, higher inflation, higher debt service costs. And that's likely going to reflect the type of holiday spending that we see this year. In particular, higher income households have just more buying power, they're more willing to spend on experiences. And so we could just see that holiday shopping that's more skewed towards higher income spenders and that's more experience oriented will be the winners of this holiday shopping season.
Michelle Weaver: What specific trends have you seen in U.S. consumer spending in the third quarter? And what do you expect for the final quarter of this year?
Sarah Wolfe: Consumer spending in the third quarter was really strong because the labor market largely was very resilient, and as a result, we saw that there was just more momentum for goods and services spending, so both reaccelerated into the third quarter. However, what we could see is that there still is this clear preference shift on experiences over goods in particular accommodations, travel, etc. And so I think that's going to feed through into the type of holiday shopping that we see this year.
Michelle Weaver: And I know that during Covid, consumers were able to save a lot more money than usual. How are these excess savings balances looking now and what do you expect going forward?
Sarah Wolfe: We estimate that about 40% of the excess savings stockpile has been spent down, so there's still a pretty hefty 60% of excess savings sitting among households. However, we do not expect much more drawdown in excess savings across 2024. The reason is that our work shows that the excess savings stockpile is increasingly being held by the highest income households. They, first of all, have a lower propensity to consume out of savings, but more importantly, they had been willing to spend down their excess savings over the past two years. But that was to fuel their pent up demand for the services, economy recovery. And now that we've seen a full recovery on that side of the economy, there's really just less desire, less willingness to spend out of excess savings. Further, we're seeing that there's been an increasing movement from liquid to less liquid assets. So more and more of that savings is not just sitting in cash under the bed and so it's less likely to make its way into consumer spending. Michelle, based on your recent survey work in collaboration with U.S. Equity Analyst, wha...
M&A Rebound Ahead?
Thoughts on the Market
03/08/24 • 3 min
Our Head of Corporate Credit Research cites near-term and long-term factors indicating that investors should expect a major boost in merger and acquisition activity.
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley. Along with my colleagues bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about trends across the global investment landscape, and how we put those ideas together.
It's Friday, March 8th at 2:00pm in London.
Usually, company activity follows the broader trends in markets. But last year, it diverged. 2023 was generally a strong year for economic growth and the stock market. But Mergers and Acquisition activity was anemic. By our count, global M&A activity in 2023, adjusted for the size of the economy, was the lowest in 30 years.
We think that’s going to change. There are both near-term and longer-term reasons why we think the buying and selling of companies can pick up. We think we’re going to see the return of M&A.
Near term, we think corporate confidence, which is essential to any large transaction, is improving. While stocks and the economy were ultimately strong last year, a lot of 2023 was still dominated by fears of rising yields, elevated inflation and persistent expectations of recession. Recall that as recently as October of 2023, the median stock in the S&P 500 was actually down about 5 per cent for the year.
All of those factors that were hitting corporate confidence, today are looking better. And with Morgan Stanley’s expectation for 2024, and economic soft landing, we think that improvement will continue. But don’t just take our word for it. The companies that traffic directly in M&A were notably more upbeat about their pipelines when they reported earnings in January.
Incidentally, this is also the message that we get from Morgan Stanley’s industry experts. We recently polled Morgan Stanley Equity Analysts across 150 industry groups around the world. Half of them saw M&A activity increasing in their industry over the next 12 months. Only 6 per cent expected it to decline.
But there’s also a longer run story here.
We think we can argue that depressed corporate activity has actually been a multi-year story. If we think about what factors historically explained M&A activity, such as stock market performance, overall valuations, volatility, Central Bank policy, and so on – the activity that we’ve seen over the last three years has undershot what these variables would usually expect by somewhere between $4-11 trillion. We think that speaks to a multi-year hit to corporate confidence and increased uncertainty from COVID and its aftermath; as that confidence returns, some of this gap might be made up.
And there are other longer-term drivers. We believe Private Equity firms have been sitting on their holdings for an unusually long period of time, putting more pressure on them to do deals and return money to investors. Europe is just starting to emerge from an even longer-drought of activity, while reforms in Japan are encouraging more corporate action. We are positive on both European and Japanese equity markets.
And other multi-year secular trends – from rising demand in AI capabilities, to clean energy transition, to innovation in life sciences – should also structurally support more M&A over the next cycle.
Mergers and Acquisition activity has been unusually low. We think that’s changing, and investors should expect much more of this activity going forward.
Thanks for listening. Subscribe to Thoughts on the Market on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, and leave us a review. We’d love to hear from you.
U.S. Tech: The Future of Artificial Intelligence
Thoughts on the Market
03/10/23 • 11 min
As the advancement of generative AI takes off, how might this inflection point in technology impact markets, companies, and investors alike? Equity Analyst and Head of U.S. Internet Research Brian Nowak and Head of the U.S. Software Research Team Keith Weiss discuss.
----- Transcript -----
Brian Nowak: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Brian Nowak, Equity Analyst and Head of U.S. Internet Research for Morgan Stanley.
Keith Weiss: And I'm Keith Weiss, Head of the U.S. Software Research Team.
Brian Nowak: Today, we're at Morgan Stanley's annual Tech, Media, and Telecom conference in downtown San Francisco. We've been here most of the week talking with industry leaders and emerging companies across the spectrum, and the topic on everyone's mind is clearly A.I. So today, we're going to share some of what we're hearing and our views on the rise of artificial intelligence tools. It's Thursday, March 9th at 2 p.m. here on the West Coast.
Brian Nowak: All week, Keith and I have been meeting with companies and speaking with new companies that are developing technologies in artificial intelligence. We've written research about how we think that artificial intelligence is reaching somewhat of an iPhone inflection moment with new people using new tools, and businesses starting to realize artificial intelligence is here to stay and can drive real change. Keith, talk to us about how we reached this moment of inflection and how do you think about some of the big picture changes across technology?
Keith Weiss: Well, thank you for having me, Brian. So we've been talking about artificial intelligence for some time now. Software companies have been infusing their solutions with machine learning driven type algorithms that optimize outcomes for quite some time. But I do think the iPhone analogy is apt, for two reasons. One, what we're talking about today with generative AI is more foundational technologies. You can almost think about that as the operating system on the mobile phone like the iOS operating system. And what we've heard all week long is companies are really seeing opportunity to create new apps on top of that operating system, new use cases for this generative AI. The other reason why this is such an apt analogy is, like the iPhone, this is really capturing the imagination of not just technology executives, not just investors like you and I, but everyday people. This is something that our kids are coming home from high school and saying, "Hey, dad, look at what I'm able to do or with chatGPT, isn't this incredible?" So you have that marketing moment of everybody realizes that this new capability, this new powerful technology is really available to everybody.
Keith Weiss: So, Brian, what do you think are going to be the impacts of this technology on the consumer internet companies that you cover?
Brian Nowak: We expect significant change. There is approximately $6 trillion of U.S. consumer expenditure that we think is going to be addressed by change. We see changes across search. We see more personalized search, more complete search. We see increasing uses of chatbots that can drive more accurate, personalized and complete answers in a faster manner across all types of categories. Think about improved e-commerce search helping you find products you would like to buy faster. Think about travel itinerary AI chatbots that create entire travel itineraries for your family. We see the capability for social media to change, better rank ordering and algorithms that determine what paid and organic content to show people at each moment. We see new creator tools, generative AI is going to enable people to make not only static images but more video based images across the entire economy. So people will be able to express themselves in more ways across social media, which will drive more engagement and ultimately more monetization for those social media platforms. We see e-commerce companies being able to better match inventory to people. Long tail inventory that previously perhaps could not find the right person or the right potential buyer will now better be able to be matched to buyers and to wallets. We see the shared economy across rideshare and food delivery also benefiting from this. Again, you're going to have more information to better match drivers to potential riders, restaurants to potential eaters. And down the line we go where we ultimately see artificial intelligence leading to an acceleration in digitization of consumers time, digitization of consumers wallets and all of that was going to bring more dollars online to the consumer internet companies.
Brian Nowak: Now that's the consumer side, how do you think about artificial intelligence impacting enterprise in the B2B side?
Keith Weiss:
Show more best episodes
Show more best episodes
FAQ
How many episodes does Thoughts on the Market have?
Thoughts on the Market currently has 1226 episodes available.
What topics does Thoughts on the Market cover?
The podcast is about Markets, Investing, Podcasts, Economics, Business, Fixed Income, Strategy, Global and Macro.
What is the most popular episode on Thoughts on the Market?
The episode title 'Mike Wilson: A Sudden Drop for Stocks and Bonds' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Thoughts on the Market?
The average episode length on Thoughts on the Market is 5 minutes.
How often are episodes of Thoughts on the Market released?
Episodes of Thoughts on the Market are typically released every day.
When was the first episode of Thoughts on the Market?
The first episode of Thoughts on the Market was released on May 26, 2019.
Show more FAQ
Show more FAQ