TWiS 156: Rocket Blast - With Dr. Phil Metzger

04/11/25 • 70 min

In this episode of This Week in Space, hosts Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik welcome Dr. Phil Metzger from the University of Central Florida to discuss the dangerous realities of rocket plumes when landing spacecraft on the Moon and Mars. Before diving into the main topic, the hosts talk about Jared Isaacman's NASA administrator confirmation hearing, Katy Perry's upcoming Blue Origin spaceflight, and a newly discovered comet.

Headlines:

Jared Isaacman's NASA Administrator Confirmation Hearing - The billionaire Shift4 CEO and astronaut faced intense questioning about his independence from Elon Musk, with senators repeatedly asking if Musk was present during his meeting with Trump. Isaacman confirmed he'll continue with Artemis missions and the ISS through 2030.
Katy Perry's Space Flight - The pop star will join the world's first all-female crew aboard Blue Origin's New Shepard, scheduled for April 14. The crew includes Gayle King and other accomplished women, though the flight has received criticism for being extravagant during tough economic times.
New Comet Discovered - Comet C/2025 F2 Swan was discovered on March 29 by a Ukrainian skywatcher and is currently visible to the naked eye in dark skies, though it will soon only be visible from the Southern Hemisphere.

Main Topic - Rocket Plume Effects with Dr. Phil Metzger:

Rocket Plume Dangers - Dr. Metzger explains how rocket exhaust can propel lunar soil at speeds up to 3 km/second (above lunar escape velocity), potentially damaging equipment far from landing sites and even ejecting material entirely off the Moon.
Apollo 12 Evidence - The Surveyor 3 spacecraft, visited by Apollo 12 astronauts, showed significant sandblasting damage from the lunar module landing 160 meters away, with paint surfaces scoured and peppered with holes from high-velocity particles.
SpaceX Starship Launch Analysis - Dr. Metzger studied the first Starship test launch and found concrete chunks traveling at 90 meters per second, with sand carried 6 miles away in raindrops formed within a rotating cloud of hot exhaust.
Landing Pad Solutions - Various approaches for building lunar landing pads include microwave sintering of lunar soil, bringing polymers from Earth as binders, creating rock beds, and baking pavers in ovens—all requiring robotic construction methods.
Future of Space Industry - Dr. Metzger advocates moving computing and energy production to space to reduce Earth's industrial burden. He estimates it could take 20-30 years to reach a tipping point where space industry becomes self-sustaining, potentially accelerated by billionaire investment or government support.
Lunar Mining Potential - Dr. Metzger discusses surface mining approaches versus underground operations, noting the Moon's surface has been bombarded for billions of years with bedrock lying 10 kilometers deep.
Science Budget Concerns - The hosts and Dr. Metzger express concerns about reported cuts to NASA's science budget, particularly affecting Earth science programs, with Dr. Metzger warning this could harm America's leadership in scientific research.

Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik

Guest: Dr. Phil Metzger

Download or subscribe to This Week in Space at https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-space.

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Headlines:

Jared Isaacman's NASA Administrator Confirmation Hearing - The billionaire Shift4 CEO and astronaut faced intense questioning about his independence from Elon Musk, with senators repeatedly asking if Musk was present during his meeting with Trump. Isaacman confirmed he'll continue with Artemis missions and the ISS through 2030.
Katy Perry's Space Flight - The pop star will join the world's first all-female crew aboard Blue Origin's New Shepard, scheduled for April 14. The crew includes Gayle King and other accomplished women, though the flight has received criticism for being extravagant during tough economic times.
New Comet Discovered - Comet C/2025 F2 Swan was discovered on March 29 by a Ukrainian skywatcher and is currently visible to the naked eye in dark skies, though it will soon only be visible from the Southern Hemisphere.

Main Topic - Rocket Plume Effects with Dr. Phil Metzger:

Rocket Plume Dangers - Dr. Metzger explains how rocket exhaust can propel lunar soil at speeds up to 3 km/second (above lunar escape velocity), potentially damaging equipment far from landing sites and even ejecting material entirely off the Moon.
Apollo 12 Evidence - The Surveyor 3 spacecraft, visited by Apollo 12 astronauts, showed significant sandblasting damage from the lunar module landing 160 meters away, with paint surfaces scoured and peppered with holes from high-velocity particles.
SpaceX Starship Launch Analysis - Dr. Metzger studied the first Starship test launch and found concrete chunks traveling at 90 meters per second, with sand carried 6 miles away in raindrops formed within a rotating cloud of hot exhaust.
Landing Pad Solutions - Various approaches for building lunar landing pads include microwave sintering of lunar soil, bringing polymers from Earth as binders, creating rock beds, and baking pavers in ovens—all requiring robotic construction methods.
Future of Space Industry - Dr. Metzger advocates moving computing and energy production to space to reduce Earth's industrial burden. He estimates it could take 20-30 years to reach a tipping point where space industry becomes self-sustaining, potentially accelerated by billionaire investment or government support.
Lunar Mining Potential - Dr. Metzger discusses surface mining approaches versus underground operations, noting the Moon's surface has been bombarded for billions of years with bedrock lying 10 kilometers deep.
Science Budget Concerns - The hosts and Dr. Metzger express concerns about reported cuts to NASA's science budget, particularly affecting Earth science programs, with Dr. Metzger warning this could harm America's leadership in scientific research.

Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik

Guest: Dr. Phil Metzger

Download or subscribe to This Week in Space at https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-space.

Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts!
Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit

Previous Episode

TWiS 155: Space News You Can Use - Fram2 Crew, Blue Origin, Johnston Island, JAXA

This week, it's cool space news you can use (if you're not stuck on the ISS!). We look at the recent flight of Fram 2, the first spacecraft to fly a polar orbit; recent revelations about the flight of Starliner from commander Butch Wilmore; a mysterious Russian satellite behaving strangely; and carnivorous Martian dust devils. We also update you on SpaceX's next test of Starship, SpinLaunch's mighty "space cannon," recent experiments on abating lunar dust, and much more. Join us!

Fram 2 Mission - SpaceX's private orbital mission financed by cryptocurrency billionaire Chun Wang completed a four-day flight, making history as the first mission to send astronauts over Earth's poles.
Amazon's Kuiper Satellites - Amazon launched its first batch of 27 Kuiper internet satellites on an Atlas 5 rocket, beginning its planned 3,200-satellite constellation to compete with SpaceX's Starlink.
Blue Origin's All-Female Flight Controversy? - Actress Olivia Munn is blasting the all-female crew for Blue Origin's next suborbital flight for its costly, gluttonous mission.
Tariffs Impact on Space Industry - The hosts discussed how new tariffs could affect aerospace companies that rely on international partnerships and imported components for spacecraft manufacturing.
US Military Cargo Delivery with SpaceX - The US military's Rocket Cargo Vanguard program plans to test using SpaceX's Starship to deliver 100 tons of cargo anywhere in the world in under 90 minutes.
Starliner's Harrowing Mission - New details revealed that Boeing's Starliner mission was more dangerous than initially reported, with multiple thruster failures creating serious maneuvering issues, threatening to leave them adrift in space.
Mysterious Russian Satellites - Three Russian satellites (Cosmos 2581-2583) were observed performing proximity operations and possibly deploying another object in orbit, raising concerns about their purpose.
Starship Test 9 Preparations - SpaceX is preparing to refly a Starship booster with 29 reused engines, marking progress toward their fully reusable rocket system.
Japan's Mars Plans - JAXA is planning to send multiple mini rovers to Mars using an inflatable heat shield technology to enable larger payload deliveries, and add a lander to Phobos.
Cannibal Dust Devils on Mars - The Perseverance rover captured images of two dust devils on Mars merging, with the larger one (210 feet wide) absorbing a smaller one (16 feet wide).
Lunar Dust Mitigation Technology - NASA successfully tested an electrodynamic dust shield on Firefly's Blue Ghost lunar lander that could help manage the highly problematic lunar dust on future missions.
Asteroid 2024 YR4 Update - James Webb Space Telescope observations determined the asteroid is about 200 feet wide with a slightly increased 3.8% chance of hitting the moon in 2032, up from 1.7%.
SpinLaunch's Satellite Plans - SpinLaunch received $12 million in funding to develop an enhanced system using centrifugal force to launch up to 250 satellites at once, potentially offering a more cost-effective and environmentally friendly launch alternative.

Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik

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Next Episode

TWiS 157: Space Force! - With Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force John Bentivegna

We've all heard of it, and some of us have seen the Netflix comedy series, but what exactly is the U.S. Space Force, and what do they do? We invited Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force John Bentivegna to the podcast to discuss the founding of Space Force, what they are charged with overseeing, their role in continuously monitoring U.S. orbital assets and possible threats to them, and their future role in guarding the space lanes. We also look at the controversy surrounding the recent Blue Origin flight with Katy Perry and other women of note, a recent explosion at a Northrop Grumman facility, and the announcement of a possible detection of life on exoplanet k2-18b!
Headlines:

Possible Life on Exoplanet K2-18b: Scientists have detected potential signs of life in the spectra of exoplanet K2-18b, including dimethyl sulfide, a substance produced by algae and microbes on Earth.
Blue Origin's Glam Flight Controversy: The recent Blue Origin NS-31 flight, intended to promote women in STEM, sparked debate about space tourism and what defines an astronaut.
Northrop Grumman Explosion: A recent explosion at Northrop Grumman's Promontory, Utah, test site destroyed a building, raising questions about the future of solid rocket motor development.

Interview with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna:

His role in the Space Force: Chief Master Sergeant Bentivegna discusses his role as the senior enlisted member, advising on guardian development, strategy, and welfare.
Career Path: Bentivegna recounts his journey from joining the Air Force in 1994 to becoming a key leader in the Space Force, highlighting his experience in space operations.
Space Force Mission: He details the Space Force's core functions: assured space access, global space operations (including GPS management and space domain awareness), and space control to ensure space superiority.
Space Warfighting Framework: The launch of the Space Warfighting Framework, just released this week, is discussed, emphasizing its importance for integrating and planning space operations across the joint force and clarifying the Space Force's capabilities and operational lexicon.
Concerns About Threats in Space: The podcast addresses the threats posed by adversarial actions in space, such as the deployment of ASAT weapons and potential EMP attacks, and the measures the Space Force is developing to protect and defend critical space assets.
Space Force and NASA Collaboration: The ongoing collaboration between the Space Force and NASA is highlighted, including the role of guardians in space exploration, research, and astronaut support.
Future of Space Operations: The episode concludes with a look at the future of space operations, including the potential for a "Space Coast Guard" and the expanding role of the Space Force in lunar and cislunar activities.

Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik

Guest: John Bentivegna

Download or subscribe to This Week in Space at https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-space.

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