
366: Perfectionism Isn't Always A Bad Thing - With Katherine Morgan Schafler
01/20/23 • 47 min
1 Listener
Welcome back to Therapy Chat! We have talked a lot on Therapy Chat about perfectionism, and this week’s guest brings a slightly different perspective. Our guest today is a former onsite therapist at Google who proposes that it’s not always necessary to let go of being a perfectionist, because there are many positive aspects of this characteristic.
Katherine Morgan Schafler is a psychotherapist, writer and speaker, and former on-site therapist at Google. She earned degrees and trained at UC Berkeley and Columbia University, with post-graduate certification from the Association for Spirituality and Psychotherapy in New York City. Katherine’s new book, The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A path to peace and power, came out in January 2023.
In this episode:
Katherine explains the 5 types of perfectionism:
- Classic Perfectionists
- Intense Perfectionists
- Parisian Perfectionists
- Messy Perfectionists
- Procrastinator Perfectionists
Visit Katherine’s website and learn about her book here.
Buy Katherine Morgan Schafler’s book, The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A path to peace and power on Amazon here.
Other resources from this week's episode:
Sign up for FREE to attend Ireen Ninonuevo's summit, Love After Abuse, Finding Safety & Trust in Relationships here. It begins on 1/16/23 and you'll hear my interview, entitled, "The Secret to Fulfilling Relationships is Inside of You," along with 20 other wonderful speakers.
Register for free for the Holistic Psychotherapy Summit, featuring world-renowned speakers including Pat Ogden and many others! Summit runs 1/23-28!
Get free trainings on Energy Work and Spirituality with trauma survivors from Dr. Frank Anderson and save on his training when you register here!
Learn about Keri Nola's Abundance Activator and get a special offer using coupon code: THERAPYCHAT at this link: https://activatorlive.com/
Therapists, save 15% when you attend a Level II NARM training in 2023 using coupon code: TraumaTherapist15 at: www.narmtraining.com
Find Laura's most frequently recommended resources for learning about trauma here
Love Therapy Chat? Leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts to help more people find the show!
This episode is sponsored by Trauma Therapist Network. Learn about trauma, connect with resources and find a trauma therapist near you at www.trauma therapist network.com. We believe that trauma is real, healing is possible and help is available. Therapists, registration opens in March 2023 for Trauma Therapist Network membership. We now have new membership levels and options for Group Practice Owners and Canadian therapists! Get the details and join the waiting list for early access next time registration goes live at: https://go.traumatherapistnetwork.com/join !
Thank you to Innovations in Psychotherapy 2023 in Cancun by Leading Edge Seminars for sponsoring this week's episode! Therapists, meet us in sunny Cancun in February 2023 for a week of training and vacation! Use code LAURA to save 10% on any 5-day workshop fee when purchased with a room at www.leadingedgecancun.com You’ll earn CEs in the morning, then have afternoons for fun at an all-inclusive resort. Workshops by Frank Anderson, Arielle Schwartz, John Briere, and m...
Welcome back to Therapy Chat! We have talked a lot on Therapy Chat about perfectionism, and this week’s guest brings a slightly different perspective. Our guest today is a former onsite therapist at Google who proposes that it’s not always necessary to let go of being a perfectionist, because there are many positive aspects of this characteristic.
Katherine Morgan Schafler is a psychotherapist, writer and speaker, and former on-site therapist at Google. She earned degrees and trained at UC Berkeley and Columbia University, with post-graduate certification from the Association for Spirituality and Psychotherapy in New York City. Katherine’s new book, The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A path to peace and power, came out in January 2023.
In this episode:
Katherine explains the 5 types of perfectionism:
- Classic Perfectionists
- Intense Perfectionists
- Parisian Perfectionists
- Messy Perfectionists
- Procrastinator Perfectionists
Visit Katherine’s website and learn about her book here.
Buy Katherine Morgan Schafler’s book, The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A path to peace and power on Amazon here.
Other resources from this week's episode:
Sign up for FREE to attend Ireen Ninonuevo's summit, Love After Abuse, Finding Safety & Trust in Relationships here. It begins on 1/16/23 and you'll hear my interview, entitled, "The Secret to Fulfilling Relationships is Inside of You," along with 20 other wonderful speakers.
Register for free for the Holistic Psychotherapy Summit, featuring world-renowned speakers including Pat Ogden and many others! Summit runs 1/23-28!
Get free trainings on Energy Work and Spirituality with trauma survivors from Dr. Frank Anderson and save on his training when you register here!
Learn about Keri Nola's Abundance Activator and get a special offer using coupon code: THERAPYCHAT at this link: https://activatorlive.com/
Therapists, save 15% when you attend a Level II NARM training in 2023 using coupon code: TraumaTherapist15 at: www.narmtraining.com
Find Laura's most frequently recommended resources for learning about trauma here
Love Therapy Chat? Leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts to help more people find the show!
This episode is sponsored by Trauma Therapist Network. Learn about trauma, connect with resources and find a trauma therapist near you at www.trauma therapist network.com. We believe that trauma is real, healing is possible and help is available. Therapists, registration opens in March 2023 for Trauma Therapist Network membership. We now have new membership levels and options for Group Practice Owners and Canadian therapists! Get the details and join the waiting list for early access next time registration goes live at: https://go.traumatherapistnetwork.com/join !
Thank you to Innovations in Psychotherapy 2023 in Cancun by Leading Edge Seminars for sponsoring this week's episode! Therapists, meet us in sunny Cancun in February 2023 for a week of training and vacation! Use code LAURA to save 10% on any 5-day workshop fee when purchased with a room at www.leadingedgecancun.com You’ll earn CEs in the morning, then have afternoons for fun at an all-inclusive resort. Workshops by Frank Anderson, Arielle Schwartz, John Briere, and m...
Previous Episode

365: Regaining Mindful Attention When The Therapist's Trauma History Is Activated With Dr. John Briere
Welcome back to Therapy Chat! Following up on last week's conversation on therapists and dissociation, this week, host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C welcomes a guest who is an expert on complex trauma therapy and mindfulness. Dr. John Briere, a trauma and abuse survivor, has spent his 30 year career doing therapy with survivors of torture, sex trafficking and with patients on burn units, as well as research on complex trauma. He is Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry and the Behavioral Sciences at the University of Southern California Keck School of Medicine, and Senior Advisor to the USC Adolescent Trauma Training Center. He is recipient of the Award for Outstanding Contributions to the Science of Trauma Psychology from the American Psychological Association and the William N. Friedrich Lecturer: Outstanding Contribution to the Field of Child Psychology from the Mayo Clinic. He is author or co-author of over 140 articles and chapters, 15 books, and 9 trauma-related psychological tests.
His recent (2019) book with Guilford Press is Treating risky and compulsive behavior in trauma survivors. In the Buddhist/mindfulness domain, he is co-editor of Mindfulness-oriented interventions for trauma: Integrating contemplative practices (Guilford), and author of three chapters: Mindfulness, insight, and trauma therapy; Working with trauma: Mindfulness and compassion; and When people do bad things: Evil, suffering, and dependent origination. John has been Remote Faculty at the Institute for Meditation and Psychotherapy since 2013. Resources: - John explains and teaches the REGAIN technique that he and Tara Brach developed as a trauma focused modification of the RAIN technique taught by Tara Brach & Jack Kornfield. - John shares about his own history of trauma and how common it is for therapists to be trauma survivors. - John compassionately describes the 5 clinical dilemmas that often arise in complex trauma therapy which he calls "Reactive Avoidance" strategies: - Self Injury - Dissociation - Substance Abuse - Sexualized Behaviors - Angry/Challenging Behaviors directed toward the therapist - John normalizes these reactions, explaining that the client is not "bad" for acting out, and the therapist is not "bad," for having their own traumatic material arise in response when these dilemmas show up. - John shares how therapists (and clients) can use the REGAIN technique to get back to center when the Reactive Avoidance strategies show themselves. And much more! Find John's trainings, books, including 2 free chapters, articles, etc here: www.johnbriere.com
Want to learn more from John Briere and practice working with these 5 clinical dilemmas discussed in today's episode? Don’t miss his 5-day workshop in Cancun this February! Use
promo code JOHN50 at www.leadingedgecancun.com when you register for his workshop to save 50% on your hotel room when you book it at the same time. That’s a savings of up to $1500! New registrations only.
Other resources from this week's episode: Sign up for FREE to attend Ireen Ninonuevo's summit, Love After Abuse, Finding Safety & Trust in Relationships here. It begins on 1/16/23 and you'll hear my interview, entitled, "The Secret to Fulfilling Relationships is Inside of You," along with 20 other wonderful speakers. Therapists, save 15% when you attend a Level II NARM training in 2023 using coupon code: TraumaTherapist15 at: www.narmtraining.com Find Laura's most frequently recommended resources for learning about trauma here Love Therapy Chat? Leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts to help more people find the show!
Next Episode

367: Opening To Receive with Keri Nola
Welcome back to Therapy Chat! This week, host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C interviews returning guest Keri Nola. Keri is an Intuitive Entrepreneur, expressing her medicine as a Former Psychotherapist, Best-Selling Author, Podcaster, Oracle Card Creator and Founder of the Abundance Activator for Healing Entrepreneurs, a membership community oriented to aligning with your Divine desires. While birthing and stewarding an abundant clinical practice specializing in complex trauma and dissociation for over a decade, Keri’s work has since evolved to support therapists, coaches and healers in activating their abundant service through mentorship, products, programs, events and retreats. Keri explained that trauma can cause a shift in our relationship to receiving, on multiple levels, affecting mind, body and spirit. She talks about how being blocked from receiving results in feeling disempowered and losing trust in self and others. You'll hear Keri guide Laura through an exercise to explore this energetically, and their discussion about what came up for each of them. Listen to this interesting discussion and see what comes up for you! Resources from this episode: Visit Keri's Abundance Activator membership community here: https://www.theabundanceactivator.com/ and get a special offer with coupon code: THERAPYCHAT Learn more about Activator Live here: http://activatorlive.com and get a special offer with coupon code: THERAPYCHAT Find everything else Keri is doing at: www.kerinola.com Listen to Keri's first Therapy Chat interview on using intuition in therapy here. Listen to Keri's second Therapy Chat interview on Shadow Work in therapy here. Get free trainings on Energy Work and Spirituality with trauma survivors from Dr. Frank Anderson and save on his training when you register here!
Therapists, save 15% when you attend a Level II NARM training in 2023 using coupon code: TraumaTherapist15 at: www.narmtraining.com
Find Laura's most frequently recommended resources for learning about trauma here
Love Therapy Chat? Leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts to help more people find the show! Get our free PDF download to learn about the 5 mistakes most people make when searching for a trauma therapist here! This episode is sponsored by Trauma Therapist Network. Learn about trauma, connect with resources and find a trauma therapist near you at www.trauma therapist network.com. We believe that trauma is real, healing is possible and help is available. Therapists, registration opens in March 2023 for Trauma Therapist Network membership. We now have new membership levels and options for Group Practice Owners and Canadian therapists! Get the details and join the waiting list for early access next time registration goes live at: https://go.traumatherapistnetwork.com/join ! Thank you to Innovations in Psychotherapy 2023 in Cancun by Leading Edge Seminars for sponsoring this week's episode! Therapists, meet us in sunny Cancun in February 2023 for a week of training and vacation! Use code LAURA to save 10% on any 5-day workshop fee when purchased with a room at www.leadingedgecancun.com You’ll earn CEs in the morning, then have afternoons for fun at an all-inclusive resort. Workshops by Frank Anderson, Arielle Schwartz, John Briere, and more! Want to learn more from John Briere and practice working with the 5 clinical dilemmas in complex trauma work discussed in last week’s episode? Don’t miss his 5-day workshop in Cancun this February! Use promo code JOHN50 at www.leadingedgecancun.com when you register for his workshop to save 50% on your hotel room when you book it at the same time. That’s a savings of up to $1500! New registrations only.
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