
Karl Friston on the Perils of Investigations into Consciousness, Derealization, and the Free Energy Principle
02/21/22 • 130 min
2 Listeners
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/SWtFU1Lit3M
This podcast may be the most important one on this channel.
Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. For Algo's podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9IfRw1QaTglRoX0sN11AQQ and website https://www.algo.com/.
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LINKS MENTIONED:
-Part 1 with Karl Friston (technical): https://youtu.be/2v7LBABwZKA
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Exigent Message / Introduction
00:07:25 The Free Energy Principle's TOE explained
00:15:48 The FEP explained for physicists
00:18:24 The "external world" is dual to "you"
00:24:25 Relationship between senses and actions
00:36:25 Marginal likelihood / Model evidencing
00:54:34 Change your evidence or change your model (Repression vs. CBT)
00:58:51 An exercise to show a difference in consciousness via touching one's eye
01:03:09 Science "works" by definition of "works"!
01:12:45 Advice for those trying to understand reality
01:22:45 Dealing with derealization / spiraling mentally / depersonalization
01:34:34 Don't let the social status of having "ego death" be your lure
01:37:12 Acceptance therapy (ACT from CBT)
01:43:09 Being too much in one's head (thought loops)
01:53:09 How does Karl prevent existential crises when studying these issues?
01:56:34 The benefits of tea and smoking (yes, smoking)
01:59:28 Beta-blockers and fear extinction (Merel Kindt's groundbreaking work)
* *
Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/SWtFU1Lit3M
This podcast may be the most important one on this channel.
Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. For Algo's podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9IfRw1QaTglRoX0sN11AQQ and website https://www.algo.com/.
Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal
Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE
PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch
LINKS MENTIONED:
-Part 1 with Karl Friston (technical): https://youtu.be/2v7LBABwZKA
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Exigent Message / Introduction
00:07:25 The Free Energy Principle's TOE explained
00:15:48 The FEP explained for physicists
00:18:24 The "external world" is dual to "you"
00:24:25 Relationship between senses and actions
00:36:25 Marginal likelihood / Model evidencing
00:54:34 Change your evidence or change your model (Repression vs. CBT)
00:58:51 An exercise to show a difference in consciousness via touching one's eye
01:03:09 Science "works" by definition of "works"!
01:12:45 Advice for those trying to understand reality
01:22:45 Dealing with derealization / spiraling mentally / depersonalization
01:34:34 Don't let the social status of having "ego death" be your lure
01:37:12 Acceptance therapy (ACT from CBT)
01:43:09 Being too much in one's head (thought loops)
01:53:09 How does Karl prevent existential crises when studying these issues?
01:56:34 The benefits of tea and smoking (yes, smoking)
01:59:28 Beta-blockers and fear extinction (Merel Kindt's groundbreaking work)
* *
Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Previous Episode

Nicolas Gisin on Free Will, Quantum Gravity, Superdeterminism, and Time NOT Being an Illusion
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/jcHzgy0I6gk
Nicolas Gisin is Professor of Physics, specializing in the foundations of quantum mechanics, at the University of Geneva. Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. For Algo's podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9IfRw1QaTglRoX0sN11AQQ and website https://www.algo.com/.
Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal
Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE
PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch
LINKS MENTIONED:
-Quantum Chance by Nicholas Gisin (affiliate): https://amzn.to/3KPHG8x
-Sabine Hossenfelder's Superdeterminism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytyjgIyegDI
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:03:38 Gisin's "Quantum Chance" book is a friendly introduction to QM
00:06:36 Consciousness is outside today's physics and may always be
00:07:48 Indeterminacy is necessary but not sufficient for free will
00:09:37 Free will is necessary for "rationality" to exist
00:10:40 Free will comes FIRST in the "logical order"
00:21:39 What does mathematics have to say about free will and consciousness?
00:27:18 Intuitionism vs Constructionism
00:28:22 Classical physics is NOT deterministic
00:34:27 Does he agree with Stephen Wolfram that it's computation underlying physics?
00:36:06 Time is "thick" like molasses
00:40:21 Intuitionist mathematics and law of excluded middle
00:42:57 Graham Priest's paraconsistent logic and other forms of logic
00:49:32 A new understanding of time is needed for Quantum Gravity
00:52:55 Discrete spacetime? Perhaps not
00:53:21 Philosophy of Jules Lequier
00:55:15 On Sabine Hossenfelder's views on free will
00:58:33 Superdeterminism
01:01:52 Is indeterminacy truly necessary for free will?
01:03:39 Many Worlds is nonsense
01:05:37 Should logic be the basis of mathematics?
01:10:00 Which approach to quantum gravity does Gisin favor?
01:10:17 [Stephen Robbins] Bergson?
01:11:23 [Complex Plane @kekule6] Chomsky and denial of free will by physicists is an attempt to make evidence fit a model
* *
Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Next Episode
![undefined - Sabine Hossenfelder Λ Bernardo Kastrup on Superdeterminism and Metaphysics [Theolocution]](https://storage.googleapis.com/goodpods-images-bucket/episode_images/8aa1b4871fc125e51a6503cbc399064895fc113c032be50401cc4b8c8ce0a723.avif)
Sabine Hossenfelder Λ Bernardo Kastrup on Superdeterminism and Metaphysics [Theolocution]
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/kJmBmopxc1k
Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. For Algo's podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9IfRw1QaTglRoX0sN11AQQ and website https://www.algo.com/.
Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal
Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE
PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch
LINKS MENTIONED (soon to be titled -- give me one more day):
-Sabine Hossefelder's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SabineHossenfelder
-Testing Superdeterminism: https://arxiv.org/abs/1401.0286 / https://arxiv.org/abs/1105.4326
-Other Superdeterminism articles: https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.02676 / https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.01327
-Decoherence article: https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.06282
-Bernardo Kastrup's website: https://www.bernardokastrup.com/
-No Go Theorem on Wigner: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-020-0990-x
-Making Sense of the Mental Universe
by Kastrup: http://ispcjournal.org/journals/2017-19/Kastrup_19.pdf
LINKS NOT MENTIONED BUT PERTINENT:
(Bernardo Kastrup recommends the below)
Papers indicating that physical realism is untrue and refuting classes of hidden variables theories:
-https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.01826
-https://www.nature.com/articles/nature05677
-https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/12/12/123007/meta
-https://arxiv.org/abs/1902.05080
-https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0085-3
-https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1012682413597
-https://books.google.nl/books/about/Mindful_Universe.html?id=pArDC3K3O2UC
-http://ispcjournal.org/journals/2017-19/Kastrup_19.pdf
-https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.49.1804
-https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9806043
-https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9810080
-https://www.nature.com/articles/nature10119
-https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys3343
-https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1026096313729
-https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9609002
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:04:16 Overview of Superdeterminism
00:08:31 Bernardo's agreements / disagreements
00:13:15 It's more promising to violate statistical independence (SI)
00:15:59 What are the hidden variables in Superdeterminism?
00:18:20 What is statistical independence? Is it a mere assumption?
00:22:41 People claim Superdeterminism isn't falsifiable, but is it?
00:31:17 Back and forth criticism and justification of proposed experiments
00:38:35 Does experiment change the outcome of what's measured?
00:41:37 Contrarian views -- should they be put forward tentatively?
00:44:57 Decoherence and the observer
00:49:22 The observer (and consciousness) is irrelevant in quantum mechanics
00:52:37 Why oppose violating statistical independence (SI)?
00:54:57 Metaphysics? Or simply trying to solve the measurement problem?
00:55:57 We don't have a good reason to depart with SI
00:59:10 Holding Sabine to higher standards than John Bell?
01:01:31 [gastronic] What is the definition of measurement / What does it mean to "look at"?
01:02:22 [Salvatore Pais] Unification of forces by means of the "Super Force"
01:05:18 [rad capsule] "Without thought, there is no science."
01:07:22 Falsifying idealism
01:11:53 Joscha Bach?
01:13:20 Notes about the upcoming Salvatore Pais interview
* *
Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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