The Messy Truth About Tech and Testing Careers in 2025
04/28/25 • 56 min
In this episode, Richard and Vernon discuss various aspects of job stability in the tech industry post-pandemic, the impact of innovation on job longevity, and the dynamics of accidental management. They explore the changing landscape of tech roles, the importance of ratios between developers and testers in projects, and the evolving nature of go/no-go decisions in software releases. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear metrics and standards to facilitate smoother decision-making processes in tech teams.
00:00 - Intro
01:07 - Welcome to the Vernon Richard Emily Show
01:35 - Our viral moment
03:07 - Question: Do you think people are staying in tech jobs longer since the pandemic? The old time in role used to be about 2 years right?
17:00 - Income worries and diversification
20:20 - Question: I see loads of developers become accidental managers, but i don't think that's as common for testers - what do you think?
23:40 - Can Testing specialists become Engineering Managers (and beyond)?
26:06 - How does being a Quality Engineer impact your chances?
28:25 - Lived experience vs coaching
31:08 - We're already doing management and leadership
32:19 - What career paths are open to people with a testing background?
33:59 - Question: Do you think there is a good target ratio of dev:test professionals in greenfield projects? Brownfield projects etc. If not, what sort of thing do you think that depends on?
34:40 - It depends! On the project demands
35:20 - It depends! On what kind of people are in the team
37:10 - It depends! On testability
37:33 - And Rich's answer is...
39:19 - Sometimes you can't coach your way out of a situation
40:50 - It depends! On what good looks like
41:25 - It depends! On where the company is in it's life
44:35 - Question: My team release software to customers 1-2 times a week. Who do you think should be in that "go/no go" conversation?
46:46 - It depends 🤦🏾♂️
48:16 - go/no go meetings in 2002 versus 2025
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
- 01:35 - Our most viral video to date
- It's the short Sometimes it's best to quit your job
- 05:02 - Gary Stevenson, economist, trader, author
- 13:02 - Graham Freeburn
- Happy retirement Graham!
- 17:00 - Here's the phrase Vernon butchered and what he was trying to convey
- 28:41 - The definition of coaching
- The International Coaching Federation (ICF) define coaching as: "Partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential."
- Here's Vernon explaining it during a presentation at Agile Testing Days
- 37:10 - Resources about the 10 Ps of Testability
- Article on testability featuring the 10 Ps
- The book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney
In this episode, Richard and Vernon discuss various aspects of job stability in the tech industry post-pandemic, the impact of innovation on job longevity, and the dynamics of accidental management. They explore the changing landscape of tech roles, the importance of ratios between developers and testers in projects, and the evolving nature of go/no-go decisions in software releases. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear metrics and standards to facilitate smoother decision-making processes in tech teams.
00:00 - Intro
01:07 - Welcome to the Vernon Richard Emily Show
01:35 - Our viral moment
03:07 - Question: Do you think people are staying in tech jobs longer since the pandemic? The old time in role used to be about 2 years right?
17:00 - Income worries and diversification
20:20 - Question: I see loads of developers become accidental managers, but i don't think that's as common for testers - what do you think?
23:40 - Can Testing specialists become Engineering Managers (and beyond)?
26:06 - How does being a Quality Engineer impact your chances?
28:25 - Lived experience vs coaching
31:08 - We're already doing management and leadership
32:19 - What career paths are open to people with a testing background?
33:59 - Question: Do you think there is a good target ratio of dev:test professionals in greenfield projects? Brownfield projects etc. If not, what sort of thing do you think that depends on?
34:40 - It depends! On the project demands
35:20 - It depends! On what kind of people are in the team
37:10 - It depends! On testability
37:33 - And Rich's answer is...
39:19 - Sometimes you can't coach your way out of a situation
40:50 - It depends! On what good looks like
41:25 - It depends! On where the company is in it's life
44:35 - Question: My team release software to customers 1-2 times a week. Who do you think should be in that "go/no go" conversation?
46:46 - It depends 🤦🏾♂️
48:16 - go/no go meetings in 2002 versus 2025
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
- 01:35 - Our most viral video to date
- It's the short Sometimes it's best to quit your job
- 05:02 - Gary Stevenson, economist, trader, author
- 13:02 - Graham Freeburn
- Happy retirement Graham!
- 17:00 - Here's the phrase Vernon butchered and what he was trying to convey
- 28:41 - The definition of coaching
- The International Coaching Federation (ICF) define coaching as: "Partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential."
- Here's Vernon explaining it during a presentation at Agile Testing Days
- 37:10 - Resources about the 10 Ps of Testability
- Article on testability featuring the 10 Ps
- The book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney
Previous Episode
Positioning and Selling Yourself in Your Teams
In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Richard and Vernon delve into the intricacies of career journeys in software testing, discussing the significance of job titles, the importance of positioning oneself within a role, and the challenges faced in consulting. They explore how to define one's role and impact, navigate client expectations, and the evolution of job descriptions in the tech industry. The conversation emphasizes the need for continuous learning and adapting to different contexts, ultimately highlighting the importance of effective communication and self-reflection in shaping a successful career.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Career Journeys
03:49 The Importance of Job Titles
10:08 Positioning and Expectations in Roles
20:37 Defining Roles and Responsibilities
27:47 Evolution of Testing Roles
29:09 Navigating Challenges in Testing
30:08 The Role of Leadership in Quality Assurance
31:09 Understanding Job Expectations in Consulting
32:28 The Importance of Experience in Consulting
34:38 Context Gathering for Effective Consulting
36:33 Identifying Root Causes in Testing Issues
37:25 Adapting Responses Based on Context
38:51 The Art of Job Crafting
41:38 Shifting Perspectives on Best Practices
44:16 Balancing Expectations and Reality in Consulting
47:17 Recognizing When to Walk Away
48:39 The Impact of Context on Job Titles
51:48 Reflecting on Skills Beyond Job Titles
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