
Collabs, Careers, and Quirky Habits: Vernon & Richard's Ask Us Anything Session Part 2
10/07/24 • 55 min
In this episode of the Vernon Richard show, Richard and Vernon engage in an AMA format, discussing various topics including their collaborative projects, future aspirations, the impact of their quality testing mindset on daily life, memorable swag from testing events, experiences in uncomfortable establishments, significant learning moments, and the importance of testing environments. They emphasize the need for continuous content creation and the desire to connect with their audience for future interactions.
00:00 - Intro
00:16 - Ben's question: If you could do any co-lab with anyone from the community, who would it be, and what might it look like?
05:43 - Leigh's question: Where do you and vern see yourselves in 5 years, or want to be in 5 years, doing what kind of role in what kind of company?
15:46 - Andy's question: When I speak with people, I love hearing how their Quality/Testing mindset spills over into day to day life. One person used to test their childrens' toys by seeing if they could use them one-handed covered in olive oil. Another guy would occasionally test how far away his TV remote would work and see if it changes 😂
Maybe you've covered this stuff already, but personally I always love hearing about these funny quirks and testing 'life'.
26:05 - Emily's question: What's the best swag you've ever picked up from a testing event?
31:29 - Mark's question: Have you ever walked in to a pub that's so bad you want to instantly leave, But because of obligated politeness and fear of that awkward feeling of walking straight out again you go stayed?
35:08 - Ide's question: Looking back, best learning ever (at that moment perhaps biggest fail ever), with context, and what/when did it change from: Argh! to Ahhh!
40:53 - Anonymous question: Do you think one of your test environments should match the spec of production?
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
- 00:16 - Stuff from Ben's question
- Butch Mayhew
- Ben Dowen
- Ben's LinkedIn
- Lisi Hocke
- Nicola Lindgren
- Nicola's YouTube channel
- Nicola's blog
- The book we're writing called "The Tester's Journey"!
- Nicola's first book "Starting Your Software Testing Career"!
- Nicola's LinkedIn
- Karen Todd
- Dean Moon
- Dean's website
- Dean's LinkedIn
- Ash Coleman Hynie
- Kelsey Hightower
- Kelsey's X (formerly Twitter) account
- Manchester Tech Festival
- Their website
- Their founder Amy Newton
- Emily O'Connor
- Emily's LinkedIn
- Dorothy "Dot" Graham
- Dorothy's LinkedIn
- Janet Gregory
- Abby Bangser
- Abby's LinkedIn
- Melissa Eaden
- Stuff from Leigh's question
In this episode of the Vernon Richard show, Richard and Vernon engage in an AMA format, discussing various topics including their collaborative projects, future aspirations, the impact of their quality testing mindset on daily life, memorable swag from testing events, experiences in uncomfortable establishments, significant learning moments, and the importance of testing environments. They emphasize the need for continuous content creation and the desire to connect with their audience for future interactions.
00:00 - Intro
00:16 - Ben's question: If you could do any co-lab with anyone from the community, who would it be, and what might it look like?
05:43 - Leigh's question: Where do you and vern see yourselves in 5 years, or want to be in 5 years, doing what kind of role in what kind of company?
15:46 - Andy's question: When I speak with people, I love hearing how their Quality/Testing mindset spills over into day to day life. One person used to test their childrens' toys by seeing if they could use them one-handed covered in olive oil. Another guy would occasionally test how far away his TV remote would work and see if it changes 😂
Maybe you've covered this stuff already, but personally I always love hearing about these funny quirks and testing 'life'.
26:05 - Emily's question: What's the best swag you've ever picked up from a testing event?
31:29 - Mark's question: Have you ever walked in to a pub that's so bad you want to instantly leave, But because of obligated politeness and fear of that awkward feeling of walking straight out again you go stayed?
35:08 - Ide's question: Looking back, best learning ever (at that moment perhaps biggest fail ever), with context, and what/when did it change from: Argh! to Ahhh!
40:53 - Anonymous question: Do you think one of your test environments should match the spec of production?
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
- 00:16 - Stuff from Ben's question
- Butch Mayhew
- Ben Dowen
- Ben's LinkedIn
- Lisi Hocke
- Nicola Lindgren
- Nicola's YouTube channel
- Nicola's blog
- The book we're writing called "The Tester's Journey"!
- Nicola's first book "Starting Your Software Testing Career"!
- Nicola's LinkedIn
- Karen Todd
- Dean Moon
- Dean's website
- Dean's LinkedIn
- Ash Coleman Hynie
- Kelsey Hightower
- Kelsey's X (formerly Twitter) account
- Manchester Tech Festival
- Their website
- Their founder Amy Newton
- Emily O'Connor
- Emily's LinkedIn
- Dorothy "Dot" Graham
- Dorothy's LinkedIn
- Janet Gregory
- Abby Bangser
- Abby's LinkedIn
- Melissa Eaden
- Stuff from Leigh's question
Previous Episode

Creating an Environment for Testers to Thrive
The conversation revolves around the challenges faced by testers and the lack of understanding and support they receive from leadership. The hosts discuss the misconception of the value of testers and the need for leaders to create an environment where testers can thrive. They highlight the importance of addressing the frustrations and unhappiness of testers and the need for leaders to take responsibility for creating a supportive and nurturing culture.
The conversation also touches on the changing expectations of developers compared to testers and the need for leaders to have a better understanding of the role and value of testers. The conversation explores the disconnect between the expectations and perspectives of testing and quality engineers. It highlights the need for leaders to take responsibility for creating a supportive environment and culture. The role of tools and marketing in shaping these expectations is also discussed.
The conversation concludes with the importance of clear communication, understanding the needs of the team, and nurturing the growth of testers and quality engineers.
#podcast #softwaretesting #software #softwaredevelopment
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
- 11:38 - Challenge Networks. Listen to Adam Grant explain the concept of a Challenge Network on the DOAC podcast.
- 26:30 - Jerry Weinberg's 2nd Law of Consulting from his book The Secrets of Consulting
- "No matter how it looks at first, it's always a people problem."
- Find more of Jerry's quotes on this page
- 28:40 - Vern talking about his talk in episode 6 "How No-Code Test Tools, Technical Leadership & Glue Work Impact Software Quality"
- Tanya's Glue Work presentation which you can read or watch
- "What Is Quiet Quitting?" a BBC News article describing the phenomenon
- Vernon's Agile Yorkshire presentation where he describes the link between those concepts
- 29:19 - Martin Hynie
- Martin describing the wider impact of his talk
- Martin's LinkedIn
- 30:59 - Maaret Pyhäjärvi & Anna Baik
- Anna's quote that Maaret shared on LinkedIn
- Anna's LinkedIn
- Maaret's LinkedIn
- 34:35 - Prompt Engineer
- What's a Prompt Engineer?
- 35:30 - Adelina Chalmers
- Adelina's AMA session that I joined (please follow her and join her sessions, she's AWESOME!)
- Adelina's LinkedIn
00:00 Introduction and Technical Discussion
01:27 - What's going on with Rich's fingers?!
01:36 Challenges and Misunderstandings Faced by Testers and Quality Engineers
01:54 - Everything the Testers in your team want to tell you but are too afraid
02:50 - Vern's theory
07:40 - Why do other roles get "the nutrients" they need?
08:09 The Value of Testers and the Need for Supportive Leadership
10:26 - What do leaders misunderstand about the value of Testers and QEs?
11:38 - Support networks Vs Challenger networks
12:09 - The bugs we report that people REALLY don't like!
12:43 - System problems disguised as testing problems
14:37 Shifting Expectations for Developers and the Evolving Understanding of Testing
14:53 - Groundhog day!
16:10 - Rich wonders if our expectations are reasonable
19:29 - How does the world perceive Developers, Designers, and Testers?
21:04 - How expectations have changed for Developers
23:07 Creating a Supportive and Nurturing Environment for Testers
24:08 - How a lack of curiosity impacts the wellbeing of your team
26:21 - Expectation vs Reality
26:59 Bridging the Gap: Expectations and Perspectives
27:27 - How to collaborate on expectations with the Tester in your life!
28:37 - Martin's crazy experiments, Glue Work, Technical Leadership, ...
Next Episode

Storytelling in Testing: Books, Fieldstones, and Keynotes
#contentcreation #softwaretesting
In this conversation, Richard Bradshaw and Vernon discuss various themes including veganism, personal achievements, the writing process, and the importance of collecting ideas for content creation. They explore the significance of networking within the software testing community and reflect on the dynamics of social media, particularly Twitter and LinkedIn. The conversation also highlights the value of storytelling in professional settings and shares insights from a recent conference experience. In this conversation, Richard Bradshaw shares his experiences from the Husteth Conference, including the challenges and triumphs of being a closing keynote speaker. He discusses the unexpected power cut during his talk, the importance of engaging Q&A sessions, and the value of networking and building connections at conferences. The conversation emphasizes the significance of community, sharing insights, and the overall positive experience of attending events.
00:00 Introduction and Veganism Discussion
02:58 Celebrating Achievements and Book Launch
06:00 Writing Process and Content Creation
08:54 Collecting Ideas: The Fieldstone Method
11:55 Building in Public and Sharing Experiences
15:04 Networking and Community Engagement
17:58 Reflections on Social Media Dynamics
21:00 The Importance of Collecting Stories
23:55 Conference Experience and Innovations
26:53 Q&A Dynamics at Events
32:25 Reflections on the Husteth Conference
34:09 The Power Cut Incident
39:43 The Importance of Q&A Sessions
45:21 Closing Keynote Experience
49:42 Traveling and Networking at Conferences
52:22 Conversations and Connections at Events
57:11 Final Thoughts and Takeaways
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