The Third Story with Leo Sidran

Within about a week of home quarantine in March 2020, pianist Emmet Cohen started live-streaming shows every Monday night from his apartment in Harlem.

At first it was just Cohen and his bandmates, drummer Kyle Poole and bassist Russell Hall, set up in Cohen’s living room. Eventually they started inviting guests, and Emmet’s Place became one of the spots for live jazz in pandemic New York. Six months in, it had really caught on: the Emmet’s Place performance of “La Vie en Rose” featuring singer Cyrille Aimée has over 4 million views on Youtube.

Since then, Emmet’s Place has become a kind of jazz incubator in New York; featured guests have included legends like Houston Person, Victor Lewis, Joe Lovano, Sheila Jordan, Randy Brecker, Regina Carter, Christian McBride, Nicholas Payton, and dozens more.

Cohen has one foot planted in the future and the other in the past. Maybe that’s why he chose to call his most recent record Future Stride: as a nod to the stride piano that he loves and the modern world in which he lives.

That tension between these two impulses, the old school and the new, is at the heart of the Emmet Cohen phenomenon. He’s deeply rooted in the jazz tradition, and believes in the importance of oral history and intergenerational connection. When he was in his 20s (not so long ago!) he made a series of albums, live interviews, and performances featuring jazz masters Jimmy Cobb, Ron Carter, Benny Golson, Albert “Tootie” Heath, and George Coleman. He called it the Master Legacy Series.

Meanwhile, he’s an active digital citizen. He was quick to embrace streaming, NFTs, and direct-to-fan connection. (He offers a subscription service to his fans to support his work directly.) He’s a product of the 21st century and he understands how to thrive in both physical and virtual space.

We got together recently to talk about how he straddles the line between tradition and modernity, starting out as a prodigy in Miami, being a “repertory player,” his community in Harlem, “blues therapy” and the common lesson he learned from all his mentors.

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Kassa Overall will tell you, “I love being the first thing of a thing. It’s one of my favorite things.”

Kassa will also tell you that grew up in the cut. Between two kinds of music. Between two neighborhoods, in Seattle, that were “actually divided and separated”. He related more to the black neighborhood that he lived in, but he went to school mostly with white kids. “Looking back on it now I realize we’re all from the same stuff” but at the time it felt like he was in the middle of two worlds.

In fact, Kassa Overall will tell you a lot of things. That’s because Kassa Overall is a lot of things. Drummer. Rapper. Producer. Taker of cold showers.

As a drummer, he says “I had the old cat thing. Even though I was a young cat, I had something on drums that none of the other young cats had.” That’s how early on he caught the attention and found work performing with a formidable list of artists, including Christian McBride, Donald Byrd, Vijay Iyer, Wallace Roney, Ravi Coltrane, Gary Bartz, and many more. He also spent several years as a key member of pianist Geri Allen's Timeline band and works regularly with trumpeter Theo Croker's ensemble.

As a rapper and producer, Overall has collaborated with Brooklyn-based hip-hop outfit Das Racist, is a member of the duo Kool & Kass with former Das Racist member Kool A.D., and has DJ’ed with The Late Show with Stephen Colbert's house band, Jon Batiste & Stay Human.

And apparently Kassa is in the midst of a Wim Hof cycle of breathing and showering in cold water. That’s not really as important as the rest of the biographical story, but it does give you a sense that the guy is working on it at all times.

Overall kept his hip hop / electronic identity separate from his jazz-self for a long time, thinking that it would be a stretch to bring all of those influences into one project. “I limited myself,” he says. But ultimately he relented and made his latest solo album Go Get Ice Cream and Listen to Jazz, a startlingly cohesive array of compositions and production styles representing Kassa's diverse skillset.

In our conversation he talks about the intersection of jazz and hip-hop, the importance of getting “comfortable with being bored so you can get better at your instrument”, the relationship between great drumming and the sounds of nature, how growing up far away from the “scene” gave him a strong sense of personal identity, and what it takes to be a “cat who is going for it”.

Along the way, he discusses the influence of many of his collaborators and teachers including Vijay Iyer, Mike Ladd, Arto Lindsay, Roy Hargrove, Billy Hart, and Elvin Jones.

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In 2013, after having posted a series of videos recorded in his family home in North London of himself singing a cappella arrangements of classic - yet sometimes obscure - songs on YouTube, a critical mass began to form around Jacob Collier.

His videos of Stevie Wonder’s “Isn’t She Lovely” and “Don’t You Worry Bout A Thing” were passed around by musicians and music enthusiasts and by 2014 he was being managed by Quincy Jones and traveling around the world.

He was one of the first career artists to emerge on YouTube. Jacob’s journey since then has been nothing short of extraordinary. Today, at 30 years old, with six Grammys, millions of fans, and collaborations ranging from Herbie Hancock to Chris Martin, his influence spans generations. His Djesse project—four albums in six years, exploring 50 songs and countless collaborations —represents not just his creativity but his ability to bring others into his world. From arenas to intimate collaborations, Jacob Collier is now a fact of musical life.

Yet, he remains tied to his roots: the small room in his mother’s house where it all began. His first album, In My Room, was both a tribute to that space and a manifesto for his artistic philosophy.

Before his star had really begun to rise, I met with Collier in late 2014. He invited me to his family home in North London, where his mother greeted me with tea and cookies while he returned from university. When we finally sat down in his music room to talk, his brilliance was immediately apparent. He spoke about sound with sensitivity and clarity, blending perfect pitch, synesthesia, and a boundless curiosity. He was still a kid, but one with an expansive vision.

That conversation remains a revelation. It captured a young artist at the cusp of greatness. It is also the first interview of its kind that exists with the extraordinary artist .

Ten years after that first interview, I’m reminded why I started this podcast: to capture history as it’s being made. Jacob Collier’s story is one of boundless curiosity and connection—a message in a bottle that changed the tide.

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When he was five years old, Max Pollak had a moment. Sitting in front of a black-and-white television in suburban Vienna, he saw Fred Astaire tap dancing for the first time. “I was so spellbound by his elegance and his effortless swinging persona that I immediately decided I have to learn how to do that,” he remembers.

He didn’t understand the cultural context or the language, but he knew that whatever was happening on that screen — the rhythm, the movement, the magic — was something he had to pursue.

That moment sparked a lifelong journey that would take him from Austria to Harlem to Havana and back again.

Here, Max Pollak tells the remarkable story of how he taught himself to dance in a place where no formal tap training existed. Early on, improvisation wasn’t just part of his style — it was the only way forward. That instinctive relationship with rhythm would become the foundation of his unique voice as an artist.

At 14, Pollak met his first mentor: Carnell Lyons, a master tap dancer from Kansas City who had relocated to Europe during the civil rights era. Lyons had grown up alongside Charlie Parker and had performed with jazz legends. He passed on not only the technical language of tap, but a deep awareness of the art form’s Black American roots. That relationship shaped the way Max approached dance — not just as choreography, but as culture.

After moving to New York, Max began studying drums and enrolled in Bobby Sanabria’s Afro-Cuban ensemble at The New School. It was there that he was asked the question that would redefine his artistic path: Do you want to tap dance to Cuban music — or do you want to tap dance Cuban music?

Inspired by that challenge, Pollak dove into Afro-Cuban music, learning the language of clave and fusing it with tap, body percussion, and voice. The result was RumbaTap — a groundbreaking synthesis of traditions that bridges continents and cultures. When members of the legendary Los Muñequitos de Matanzas saw Max perform, they asked him to teach them. That moment affirmed the authenticity of his approach and led to collaborations in Cuba that brought him closer to the source of the music he had been drawn to for so long.

Today, Max Pollak is widely recognized as one of the most innovative tap dancers in the world. His contributions to the language of tap, particularly in blending it with Afro-Cuban music and body percussion, have earned him international recognition — including the rare honor of having his image featured on a United States postage stamp. He’s also a vocalist, drummer, composer, and storyteller. This week, he celebrates the 25th anniversary of RumbaTap with a special performance at 92NY, featuring members of Los Muñequitos.

This episode came together unexpectedly, sparked by a tip from bassist and composer Alexis Cuadrado, who sent me the press release for the 92NY concert. I reached out to Max for a short interview — and the conversation turned out to be so rich and wide-ranging that I decided to share it in full.

We talk about lineage, improvisation, spirituality, and what happens when you follow the rhythm only you can hear.

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