A conversation about what music means to us, and monkeys, with Dr. Charles (Chuck) Snowdon
10/18/22 • 33 min
This episode features distinguished primatologist Dr. Charles Snowdon, or Chuck Snowdon, as he’s maybe better known by.
Chuck is Hilldale Professor of Psychology Emeritus at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and he’s widely known for his work on primate social development, communication and cognition. He ran the Snowdon Primate Center in the Department of Psychology at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, where so much was learned about the small Neotropical primates known as marmosets and tamarins.
In the interview, we deep dive one specific topic that Chuck has worked on over the past couple of decades: musicality in nonhumans!
Some of our topics of conversation include:
- the integration of art and science, STEAM, and collaborating with musicians
- how our appreciation of music evolves and affects our mood
- making music for monkeys... and why it matters
- and many more!
Here's a great quote from Chuck from a 2009 article published in the Guardian: “Why should a tamarin find our music comforting? I find the monkey music quite irritating.”
You can read the paper on which a lot of our conversation was based in an article published in the journal Biology Letters (Paywall). There's also more music for tamarins in the supplementary material of that article as well!
In the interview, Chuck also references Snowball, a cockatoo who became YouTube famous for its ability to dance to the beat of popular music. This bird was also the focal point of our conversation with Dr. John Iversen, another fascinating conversation I had when he visited Japan for the Japan Society for Animal Psychology conference back in 2014. He's the middle interview in The PrimateCast 22.
The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.
Here's what you can do to get in touch!
- Connect with us on Facebook, X, or Instagram
- Subscribe where you get your podcasts
- Email [email protected] with thoughts and comments
If you value the show, leave ratings and reviews wherever it is that you listen, and consider donating by clicking the "Support the Show" link above.
Thanks for being part of The PrimateCast Community!
This episode features distinguished primatologist Dr. Charles Snowdon, or Chuck Snowdon, as he’s maybe better known by.
Chuck is Hilldale Professor of Psychology Emeritus at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and he’s widely known for his work on primate social development, communication and cognition. He ran the Snowdon Primate Center in the Department of Psychology at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, where so much was learned about the small Neotropical primates known as marmosets and tamarins.
In the interview, we deep dive one specific topic that Chuck has worked on over the past couple of decades: musicality in nonhumans!
Some of our topics of conversation include:
- the integration of art and science, STEAM, and collaborating with musicians
- how our appreciation of music evolves and affects our mood
- making music for monkeys... and why it matters
- and many more!
Here's a great quote from Chuck from a 2009 article published in the Guardian: “Why should a tamarin find our music comforting? I find the monkey music quite irritating.”
You can read the paper on which a lot of our conversation was based in an article published in the journal Biology Letters (Paywall). There's also more music for tamarins in the supplementary material of that article as well!
In the interview, Chuck also references Snowball, a cockatoo who became YouTube famous for its ability to dance to the beat of popular music. This bird was also the focal point of our conversation with Dr. John Iversen, another fascinating conversation I had when he visited Japan for the Japan Society for Animal Psychology conference back in 2014. He's the middle interview in The PrimateCast 22.
The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.
Here's what you can do to get in touch!
- Connect with us on Facebook, X, or Instagram
- Subscribe where you get your podcasts
- Email [email protected] with thoughts and comments
If you value the show, leave ratings and reviews wherever it is that you listen, and consider donating by clicking the "Support the Show" link above.
Thanks for being part of The PrimateCast Community!
Previous Episode
Language, anthropomorphism, and metaphor in science, and translating Kinji Imanishi and the flow of Japanese primatology with Dr. Pamela Asquith
This episode presents an interview with Dr. Pamela Asquith, and anthropologist and meta-primatologist who has studied how primatology was done historically in Japan, and tackled the challenge of language, metaphor and anthropomorphism in science.
In March 2022, she delivered an excellent talk for CICASP in our International Primatology Lecture Series: Past, Present and Future Perspectives in the Field. You can find a link to that event here, or go straight to the CICASP YouTube Channel and find it here.
The interview is not a carbon-copy of the lecture, so I'm sure one can find value in both!
Pam Asquith is currently adjunct professor in Environmental Studies at the University of Victoria, but perhaps spent the bulk of her career in the Department of Anthropology at the University of Alberta.
Pam is perhaps best known around here as the person who translated - with support from colleagues in Japan - Kinji Imanishi's seminal 1941 book Seibutsu no Sekai 「生物の世界」into English, under the title: "A Japanese View of Nature: The World of Living Things". Imanishi is considered a founder of Japanese primatology- he set up Kyoto University's Primate Research Institute itself! - and was especially instrumental in giving it the flavor it had that set it apart from primatology as it emerged somewhat independently in the West.
Some of the topics we cover during the conversation include:
- understanding primatology through the lens of history and philosophy, and how Eastern and Western cultural trends influenced the trajectory of the field
- the challenges of anthropomorphism and metaphor in science and the study of animal behavior
- meta-primatology and the process of studying those who study primates, especially in Japan
- marginalization in science, sometimes caused by language constraints and cultural influences on thought
- the legend that is Kinji Imanishi, his views on nature, and his influence on Japanese primatology and beyond
For anyone interested in finding out more about her work, you can visit Dr. Pamela Asquith's website, and check out her book A Japanese View of Nature: The World of Living Things on
The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.
Here's what you can do to get in touch!
- Connect with us on Facebook, X, or Instagram
- Subscribe where you get your podcasts
- Email [email protected] with thoughts and comments
If you value the show, leave ratings and reviews wherever it is that you listen, and consider donating by clicking the "Support the Show" link above.
Thanks for being part of The PrimateCast Community!
Next Episode
A life among the apes with primatologist Dr. John Mitani
This episode of The PrimateCast: Origins is taken from CICASP's International Primatology Lecture Series: Past, Present and Future Perspectives of the Field.
The IPLS is dedicated to providing origin stories told by experienced researchers in primatology and related fields. The lectures are conducted via Zoom within our CICASP Seminar in Science Communication for graduate students of our program at Kyoto University. We are releasing the audio from these lectures right here on The PrimateCast: Origins.
For anyone interested in viewing the video versions of these lectures, head over to the CICASP TV YouTube channel, where you can also watch them live as we stream our Zoom feeds there.
For the 8th international primatology lecture we invited Dr. John Mitani to share his origin story with us. This lecture took place on January 27, 2022.
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"If you find good [mentors], lean on them"
-John Mitani, 2022
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John Mitani is Professor Emeritus in the Department of Anthropology at the University of Michigan, who has conducted over 40 years of research on gibbons, orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and bonobos.
He is the 2022 recipient of the Charles R. Darwin Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Association of Biological Anthropologists. And, listening to his lecture really gives one a sense of why! So much of his work found its way into the textbooks.
In the lecture, he shares many of the key discoveries he and his colleagues have made about social behavior in primates. These covered topics like:
- territoriality and indices of home range defensibility
- how ape vocalizations play a role in territorial defense and spacing
- how male orangutans can have hugely different mating strategies that coincide with huge differences in body size and other physical features
- how chimpanzee social behavior and alliances are determined by genetic relationships among males
He then goes on to provide some sage advice for any up-and-coming scholars out there. He spends a good deal of time acknowledging his mentors, and implores all of us to do the same. He also acknowledges the importance of serendipity, and the need to be opportunistic in the face of new observations.
With eloquence and humility, John tells us the story of his career, in the hopes it can provide some inspiration to those of us out there on similar paths.
One thing's for sure: I sure felt inspired after hearing him speak!
The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.
Here's what you can do to get in touch!
- Connect with us on Facebook, X, or Instagram
- Subscribe where you get your podcasts
- Email [email protected] with thoughts and comments
If you value the show, leave ratings and reviews wherever it is that you listen, and consider donating by clicking the "Support the Show" link above.
Thanks for being part of The PrimateCast Community!
The PrimateCast - A conversation about what music means to us, and monkeys, with Dr. Charles (Chuck) Snowdon
Transcript
Thanks for tuning in to the Primate Cast . In just a moment, you'll hear an interview with Distinguished Primatologist , Dr . Charles Snowden, on what music means to monkeys
Andrew MacIntoshHello again. Welcome back to the Primate Cast. I'm your host, Andrew McIntosh from Kyoto University's Wildlife Research Center. This episode features Distinguished Primatologist , Dr. Charles Snowdon, or Chuc
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