Raising the Stakes: Investing and the Art of Risk Taking

03/11/25 • 22 min

With a standard deck of cards, there are around 2.5 million potential hands at the start of each game of poker. The key to success is in the decision process—determining how to play a hand, and how much to bet, despite not knowing which cards are in another player’s hand. Like in poker, every investment decision includes at least some degree of uncertainty. What lessons can poker teach investors about sizing their bets, managing risk, and making better decisions for their portfolio? This episode is not intended to promote gambling or equate investing to gambling.

This episode of The Outthinking Investor delivers insights on the benefits of probabilistic thinking, the best methods for analyzing portfolio decisions, and how investors could develop a sound decision-making process for targeting returns - even when facing uncertainty and market volatility.

Our guests are Annie Duke, a decision scientist, former world-class professional poker player, and the author of books including “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”; Tina Lindstrom, Head of Oil Derivatives Trading for North America at Marex; and Adam Papallo, Head of Implementation Research at PGIM Quantitative Solutions.

Do you have any comments, suggestions, or topics you would like us to cover? Email us at [email protected], or fill out our survey at PGIM.com/podcast/outthinking-investor.

Do you have any comments, suggestions, or topics you would like us to cover? Email us at [email protected], or fill out our survey at PGIM.com/podcast/outthinking-investor.

Previous Episode

The New Arms Race: Supply Chains, Data, and National Security

The world’s superpowers are engaging in a different type of arms race beyond the battlefield. With technology advancing at a speedy pace, a global competition for all the ingredients necessary to support artificial intelligence—from data centers and semiconductors to the AI models themselves—is heating up. Not only do these ingredients form the building blocks of today’s economy, but building a secure and reliable flow of data is also considered a key national security objective. The UK designated data centers as critical national infrastructure in 2024, underlining how governments are now prioritizing energy supply, cybersecurity, and efforts to guard the digital world from adversaries. This race for technological supremacy, coupled with growing private-sector demand related to AI and cloud computing, is propelling new investment opportunities.

This episode of The Outthinking Investor covers the opportunities, challenges, and security considerations at play amid rapid innovation in AI and a global battle for technological supremacy. Topics include the intersection of AI, chips and national security; governments’ pursuit of secure and reliable supply chains; and real estate opportunities created by rapid growth in hyperscale data centers.

Our guests are Chris Miller, a professor at the Fletcher School at Tufts University and author of the book “Chip War: The Fight for the World’s Most Critical Technology”; William Reinsch, senior adviser with the Economics Program and Scholl Chair in International Business at the Center for Strategic and International Studies; and Morgan Laughlin, Global Head of Data Center Investments at PGIM Real Estate.

Do you have any comments, suggestions, or topics you would like us to cover? Email us at [email protected], or fill out our survey at PGIM.com/podcast/outthinking-investor.

To hear more from PGIM, tune into Speaking of Alternatives, available on Spotify, Apple, Amazon Music, and other podcast platforms. Explore our entire collection of podcasts at PGIM.com.

Next Episode

Trading Up: How Active ETFs Revolutionized Investing

Exploring the continued evolution of the ETF landscape, fueled by rapid growth in active ETFs and an expanding universe of investment choices.

ETFs, or exchange-traded funds, were born out of a need for greater market liquidity following the 1987 stock market crash known as Black Monday. US regulators determined that institutions needed the ability to trade stocks more efficiently and cost-effectively during trading days. In 1993, the first ETF in the US emerged: SPY. With one trade, investors could buy or sell a basket of stocks that tracked companies in the S&P 500.

ETFs have since revolutionized investing. A combination of liquidity, diversification, tax efficiency and ease of access has helped ETFs attract trillions of dollars in capital. A 2019 regulatory update in the US, which made it easier to launch new ETFs, paved the way for further expansion, fueled by active strategies that are driving the next phase of growth. Offering access to actively managed strategies across stocks, bonds and alternatives, active ETFs surpassed $1 trillion in global assets under management for the first time in 2024.

Our guests are Matt Collins, CFA, Head of ETFs at PGIM Investments; Eric Balchunas, senior ETF analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence and author of “The Institutional ETF Toolbox”; and Dave Nadig, independent financial futurist and former CEO of ETF.com.

Learn more about PGIM ETFs at PGIM.com/investments/exchange-traded-funds-etfs.

Do you have any comments, suggestions, or topics you would like us to cover? Email us at [email protected], or fill out our survey at PGIM.com/podcast/outthinking-investor.

To hear more from PGIM, tune into Speaking of Alternatives, available on Spotify, Apple, Amazon Music, and other podcast platforms. Explore our entire collection of podcasts at PGIM.com.