The Messy Leadership Podcast

Welcome to Messy Leadership, a safe space where people-managers can tell the hard truth – that leadership is messy. Host Christi Scarrow is an author, Tedx speaker, consultant, trainer, executive coach, and leader who finds the ‘people’ part of managing people very difficult. Join her on this podcast where she has candid conversations with seasoned leaders who share their personal stories, struggles, and strategies to navigate the chaos and thrive.

Host Christi Scarrow and guest Shelly Anwyll, Vice President, Business Development & Member Experience at the Ontario Chamber of Commerce and Executive Co-Chair of NextUp Toronto, discuss the importance of active listening, empathy, and proactive communication in leadership. They emphasize the need to recognize and respect the perspectives of others, foster trust, and prioritize stakeholders' priorities. They also share their experiences as new managers, highlighting the challenges of delegating responsibilities and trusting team members. Shelly offers advice on how to overcome these challenges, including reframing one's mindset and recognizing the value of learning from mistakes.

Action Items

• To actively listen, don’t go to into situation with a preconceived notion of the outcome
• Recognize that the priorities of individuals you are trying to influence may be different than the organizational priorities
• Build trust with others to make difficult conversations easier
• Continue enjoying the learning process of developing skills over time rather than rushing progress.

Outline

Active listening and its importance in leadership roles.

• Shelly Anwyll emphasizes the importance of active listening in leadership.
• Active listening is essential for effective collaboration, especially in diverse settings
• Christi Scarrow and Shelly Anwyll discuss prioritizing stakeholders' perspectives in collaboration.

Leadership, conflict resolution, empathy, and trust-building strategies.

• Shelly Anwyll emphasizes proactive communication to manage conflicts, which she is in tune with through visual cues.
• Christi Scarrow and Shelly Anwyll discuss empathy and trust in leadership, with a focus on generational differences and the importance of face-to-face interactions.
• Shelly Anwyll emphasizes the importance of direct feedback and leadership accountability in building empathy and trust, regardless of reporting lines.
• Shelly advises managers to prioritize building trust and comfortable relationships with their team members.
• Shelly suggests empowering team members to make decisions and learn from mistakes to help them develop and evolve as managers.

Leadership challenges and growth.

• Christi Scarrow and Shelly Anwyll discuss the challenges of letting go of control as managers and trusting team members to do their jobs.
• Shelly advises that when managers struggle to delegate to consider the worst that could happen if something goes wrong and to focus on learning from the experience.
• Shelly Anwyll: Leaders often overmanage due to discomfort with messy parts of leadership.
• Shelly Anwyll: Enjoy the journey, don't rush to the finish line, and recognize that experience is part of successful careers.

Useful Links

Host: Christi's Web Page

Guest: NextUp Toronto

Lighthouse NINE Group: Web Page

Contributors

Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman

Editing: tribe74

Keywords

individual, situation, empathy, hospital, evolve, part, managing, messy, manager, conflict, listening, people, conversation, leadership, struggling, team, behaviors, facilitated, occurs, organization

Host Christi Scarrow and Guest Stacey Kravitz, President of UNFI Canada, discuss how leaders must be open to feedback and personal development to reach their full potential. The gap in knowledge and training between leaders and lower levels of an organization highlights the need for adapting approaches. They discuss how in a hybrid work environment, understanding generational differences and prioritizing ongoing learning and self-awareness are crucial for effective leadership. Leaders must adapt to the changing work landscape and learn from each other's perspectives.

Action Items

• Be open to feedback from others. Even if you are doing a good job, you might be able to do a great job that sets you up for the next step in your career.
• Read Robin Sharma's book “The Wealth Money Can't Buy: The 8 Hidden Habits to Live Your Richest Life” on building wealth in life to others
• Consider incorporating self-help lessons and recommendations into leadership development rather than just traditional training programs

Outline

The importance of feedback in leadership development.

• Stacey Kravitz learned that feedback is a gift and has helped her grow as a leader.
• Feedback from others helped Stacey understand her strengths and weaknesses, leading to personal growth.
• She reflects on missed opportunities for leadership growth in past roles.
• Stacey received feedback from a senior leader that hurt, but it also motivated her to improve her work.

Leadership challenges in a remote work environment.

• Stacey indicates that challenges in hybrid work include bridging the knowledge gap between leaders and lower levels, adapting to new norms, and managing cultural changes.
• Stacey discusses challenges of providing feedback in a remote work environment.
• Stacey and Christi discuss generational differences in the workplace and the importance of feedback and the challenges in building trust and managing teams in a remote work environment.

Leadership development, self-awareness, and ongoing learning.

• Stacey discusses how reading books on leadership and personal growth helps them lead better.
• Stacey recommends incorporating A-Ha! moments from literature into daily leadership journey.
• Stacey and Christi discuss the importance of self-awareness and ongoing learning for leaders.
• Christi appreciates the new generation's focus on wellness and holistic development.

Useful Links

Host: Christi's Web Page

Guest: UNFI Canada

Robin Sharma’s Latest Book: Recommended Reading

Contributors

Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman

Editing: tribe74

Keywords

leaders, feedback, organization, happen, career, work, important, people, today, love, folks, interesting, reading, pivotal moment, mentoring, changing, role, learning, teams, training, robin, sharma, wealth

Messy Leadership Host Christi Scarrow and guest Nima Fotovat (President and Co-Founder of Riverside Natural Foods) discuss effective leadership styles and approaches, emphasizing the need to balance holding people accountable, while also providing support and engagement. Christi and Nima highlight the distinction between reacting and responding in a leadership role, and share their journey of learning to balance these aspects.

Action Items

• Continue working on self-awareness to recognize instinctual reactions versus considered responses.
• Practice techniques like noticing "early volcano signals" of impending reactions and pausing to breathe before responding.
• Lead by example in personal growth and change to potentially inspire similar curiosity in others.
• When providing feedback, use the SBI (Situation, Behavior, Impact) model to deliver messages in a well-received way.
• Focus on the “Why?” to get to the “How?”

Outline

Leadership lessons and managing people with a focus on accountability and finding the right balance.

• Nima shares an important lesson learned early in his career: managing people requires a softer, gentler approach, but also accountability.
• Nima acknowledges that an approach of being forceful and demanding did not lead to improved performance, but rather created frustration and a lack of accountability.
• Nima describes his leadership journey as a pendulum of firmness and softness, striving for balance between accountability and support.
• Nima emphasizes the importance of self-awareness in recognizing and managing the pendulum swing in leadership.

Leadership challenges and self-awareness.

• Nima shares personal struggle with finding balance between being too critical and not providing enough feedback.
• He reflects on his first nature and how it impacts his leadership, recognizing it as a deeply ingrained defense mechanism.
• Nima emphasizes the importance of leading by example in inspiring desire for growth and curiosity.
• Nima believes that seeing the positive and negative consequences of change can motivate individuals to put effort into personal growth.

Leadership, motivation, and emotional intelligence.

• Nima emphasizes personal motivation and shared experiences as keys to inspiring others.
• He acknowledges the struggle to avoid reacting impulsively, seeking to respond thoughtfully instead.
• Nima seeks to cultivate mindfulness and self-awareness to improve decision-making.

Leadership, managing vs influencing, and the importance of understanding why.

• Christi discusses the importance of recognizing and managing one's physical reactions, as they can impact leadership and relationships.
• Nima emphasizes the responsibility of managing people, as their choices can have a trickle-down effect on careers and lives.
• He advises against taking on management responsibilities without proper mentorship and resources.
• Nima emphasizes the importance of aligning on the "Why?" before focusing on the "How?" and "What?"

Useful Links

Host: Christi's Web Page

Guest: Riverside Natural Foods

Contributors

Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman

Editing: tribe74

Keywords

people, work, nature, managing, leadership, self awareness, desire, question, react, influence, messy, feedback, starting, respond, pendulum, feel, early, leader, accountability, mindfulness

Guest Bruce Tunnicliffe of VEI Contracting shares his insights on effective leadership, emphasizing the importance of communication and vision in leading a team. Bruce highlights the importance of task management, delegation, and fostering a positive culture. Host Christi Scarrow added to this by emphasizing the need for open communication and a supportive leadership style in navigating toxic workplace cultures and leading growing companies. Both speakers stressed the significance of a positive culture in achieving a well-functioning team and leader.

Action Items

• Discuss culture more with new hires to ensure they understand expectations around boundaries like the no email after hours policy.
• Work with individual team members to jointly define expectations and accountability, addressing any gray areas caused by evolving roles.
• Continually evaluate team members' strengths and passions to ensure they are optimally positioned.

Outline

Leadership lessons from his early career and the importance of connecting to purpose..

• Bruce Tunnicliffe shares lessons from his 20+ year career, emphasizing the importance of communication and seeing the big picture.
• Bruce Tunnicliffe shares how while doing his masters, his supervisor challenged him to think about the purpose in his writing. This has shaped how he leads others.

Leadership, culture, and delegation for high-performing teams.

• Bruce shares his perspective on effective leadership, prioritizing tasks, and delegation.
• He emphasizes the importance of identifying important and urgent tasks, and delegating non-urgent tasks to team members.
• Bruce emphasizes the importance of culture in a high-functioning team, citing open communication, mutual respect, and supportive leadership as key components.
• Christi Scarrow seeks advice on addressing a culture of "what have you done for me lately?" in a high-performing team, with a focus on managing up and creating a more supportive environment.

Workplace culture and leadership challenges in a growing company.

• Bruce shares how to Identify a problematic culture by understanding its impact on workplace morale and productivity.
• He encourages people to communicate concerns respectfully to promote positive change
• Bruce Tunnicliffe shares challenges of doubling in size, new people, and how to set guidelines for respectful working practices.
• Christi Scarrow agrees, highlighting leadership growth and potential new challenges.

Leading and managing a growing team with accountability challenges.

• Bruce Tunnicliffe recognizes the struggle with accountability in a rapidly changing work environment.
• He encourages leaders to “know your people deeply to work with them individually in a growing environment.” and avoid structuring people too much, let them excel in their own way.

Leadership skills and self-awareness.

• Bruce Tunnicliffe advises self-reflection for those struggling in leadership positions, suggesting continual education and learning are important.
• Tunnicliffe believes in leveraging strengths, rather than improving weaknesses, for maximum success as a leader.

Useful Links

Host: Christi's Web Page

Guest: Vertex Environmental Inc.

Lighthouse NINE Group: Website

Contributors

Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman

Editing: tribe74

Keywords

work, leader, culture, person, people, leadership, thought, team, important, talk, company, bruce, tunnicliffe, hard, yell, urgent, challenge, share, bigger picture, lead, organization