Ahmed Naji Discovers Literature In An Egyptian Prison - The Story In Rotten Evidence
08/15/23 • 43 min
Today I‘m excited to be speaking with Ahmed Naji, a writer who spent two years in prison in Egypt for writing what the authorities judged to be objectionable material.
But while Ahmed Naji was in prison, he discovered literature and through that, himself. It’s an amazing story of a person who finds magic and hope in the unlikely environs of the library of a stereotypical prison—a pestilential and dank hovel, one biscuit short of hell.
But before I talk to him, I thought it might be useful to get some context going here, so, a little bit, about Egyptian literature first. Modern Egyptian literature began to flourish in the early 20th century, or right up to say the 1940s, as writers started to break away from traditional Arabic literary forms such as classical Arabic poetry, with specific meters and rhyming schemes. It was during that time that author Taha Hussein, often called the "Dean of Arabic Literature," challenged classical literary norms, when he introduced a more accessible style of prose.
The next decade saw the birth of a cultural renaissance with the overthrow of the monarchy in 1952 and the beginning of the republic. That’s about when Naguib Mahfouz happened. He went on to win the Nobel in 1988 and brought world attention to Egyptian literature.
As with all cultural forms, one decade tends to build on the previous and the successive decades have seen social realism, pioneering books, like "Woman at Point Zero", about the struggles of women in Egyptian society, and writers explained the challenges of contemporary life. There was the growth of female and feminist voices and of course the influences from the Arab Spring. Importantly, there has been a growth in contribution to literature from the Egyptian diaspora.
I found Ahmed Naji’s writing online and I was fascinated by his story and his work and we tracked him down to his new home in the United States. Ahmed’s latest book Rotten Evidence is a story about his time in prison, about how he discovered literature and found the writer in himself and the reality of protest. These lines capture the essence of the protest against censorship and being jailed for alleged obscenity.
"James Joyce, who swore to express himself with the greatest degree of freedom possible—and never to serve home, fatherland, or church—said a writer had three weapons: silence, exile, and cunning. Well, Joyce, they put me in prison, and all I had left was laughter and rage."
Such is the captivating prose of my guest today. Ahmed Naji joins me from his home in Las Vegas for this delightful conversation.
ABOUT AHMED NAJI
Ahmed Naji is a writer, journalist, documentary filmmaker... and criminal. His novel Using Life made him the only writer in Egyptian history to have been sent to prison for offending public morality. Naji has won several prizes including a Dubai Press Club Award and a PEN/Barbey Freedom to Write Award. He is currently a fellow at the Beverly Rogers, Carol C. Harter Black Mountain Institute.
Buy Rotten Evidence: Reading and Writing in an Egyptian Prison: https://litcity.in/rotten-evidence
WHAT'S THAT WORD?!
Co-host Pranati "Pea" Madhav joins Ramjee Chandran in "WHAT'S THAT WORD?!", where they discuss the Arabic proverb "BUKRA FI'L MISH MISH".
CONTACT US
Reach us by mail: [email protected] or simply, [email protected]
Or here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theliterarycity
Or here: https://www.instagram.com/explocityblr/
Today I‘m excited to be speaking with Ahmed Naji, a writer who spent two years in prison in Egypt for writing what the authorities judged to be objectionable material.
But while Ahmed Naji was in prison, he discovered literature and through that, himself. It’s an amazing story of a person who finds magic and hope in the unlikely environs of the library of a stereotypical prison—a pestilential and dank hovel, one biscuit short of hell.
But before I talk to him, I thought it might be useful to get some context going here, so, a little bit, about Egyptian literature first. Modern Egyptian literature began to flourish in the early 20th century, or right up to say the 1940s, as writers started to break away from traditional Arabic literary forms such as classical Arabic poetry, with specific meters and rhyming schemes. It was during that time that author Taha Hussein, often called the "Dean of Arabic Literature," challenged classical literary norms, when he introduced a more accessible style of prose.
The next decade saw the birth of a cultural renaissance with the overthrow of the monarchy in 1952 and the beginning of the republic. That’s about when Naguib Mahfouz happened. He went on to win the Nobel in 1988 and brought world attention to Egyptian literature.
As with all cultural forms, one decade tends to build on the previous and the successive decades have seen social realism, pioneering books, like "Woman at Point Zero", about the struggles of women in Egyptian society, and writers explained the challenges of contemporary life. There was the growth of female and feminist voices and of course the influences from the Arab Spring. Importantly, there has been a growth in contribution to literature from the Egyptian diaspora.
I found Ahmed Naji’s writing online and I was fascinated by his story and his work and we tracked him down to his new home in the United States. Ahmed’s latest book Rotten Evidence is a story about his time in prison, about how he discovered literature and found the writer in himself and the reality of protest. These lines capture the essence of the protest against censorship and being jailed for alleged obscenity.
"James Joyce, who swore to express himself with the greatest degree of freedom possible—and never to serve home, fatherland, or church—said a writer had three weapons: silence, exile, and cunning. Well, Joyce, they put me in prison, and all I had left was laughter and rage."
Such is the captivating prose of my guest today. Ahmed Naji joins me from his home in Las Vegas for this delightful conversation.
ABOUT AHMED NAJI
Ahmed Naji is a writer, journalist, documentary filmmaker... and criminal. His novel Using Life made him the only writer in Egyptian history to have been sent to prison for offending public morality. Naji has won several prizes including a Dubai Press Club Award and a PEN/Barbey Freedom to Write Award. He is currently a fellow at the Beverly Rogers, Carol C. Harter Black Mountain Institute.
Buy Rotten Evidence: Reading and Writing in an Egyptian Prison: https://litcity.in/rotten-evidence
WHAT'S THAT WORD?!
Co-host Pranati "Pea" Madhav joins Ramjee Chandran in "WHAT'S THAT WORD?!", where they discuss the Arabic proverb "BUKRA FI'L MISH MISH".
CONTACT US
Reach us by mail: [email protected] or simply, [email protected]
Or here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theliterarycity
Or here: https://www.instagram.com/explocityblr/
Previous Episode
Centres Of Power - In The Den With Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi And Chinmay Gharekhan
Why were the 1980s pivotal in so many respects? Think the giddy days of glasnost and perestroika, the end of the cold war—of the whole Soviet Union in fact, liberalisation and globalisation, GATT and open borders, the assassination of Indira Gandhi, the rise of Rajiv Gandhi—who stepped on the gas and pushed the country towards a more open economy.
I became a lobbyist in Delhi in the 80s. I was barely twenty when I joined as a fresher, in 1980. When I quit my job and returned home to Bangalore in 1988, I had aged more than the chronology of the eight years would suggest.
As a young man growing into his own, I was privileged to have been in the middle of the most pivotal period of Indian administration and world history since WWII. Up close and in the middle of it all. It was a lesson in how policy and administration works, it was a lesson in understanding the scale of their enterprise, and it was a lesson in humility.
When you are in your twenties, you have the answer to all problems—and there’s a good side to that because you feel both empowered and a participant, with access to the centres of power.
But my guest today was one of those who was, himself a centre of power—Chinmay Gharekhan. Of the many important offices he held, one of which was in the Prime Minister’s Office—both during the time of Indira Gandhi and then Rajiv Gandhi. And then he was India’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations.
His book is a memoir of his days at the Prime Minister’s Office, the real seat of power in India and following that in the United Nations Security Council during the period of the First Gulf War—another greatly pivotal period for us.
Chinmay Gharekhan is the author of the memoir, Centres Of Power - My Years In The Prime Minister’s Office and Security Council. It is always fascinating to think of our history—as these things influence the way we think today—and when you have someone who had a ringside seat to those events, you listen carefully.
And joining me from his home in Scarsdale in New York is Ambassador Gharekhan.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Chinmaya R. Gharekhan, a distinguished member of the Indian Foreign Service, served in several capitals in different continents. He had the unique privilege of working with two prime ministers, Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi, for a period of about five years. He spent the better part of his career dealing with the United Nations. As ambassador of India to the United Nations in New York, he represented India on the Security Council during 1991–1992 and was twice president of the Security Council. He was appointed prime minister’s special envoy for West Asia and the Middle East Peace Process during 2005–2009.
Buy Centres Of Power: https://amzn.to/3DmnM2u
WHAT'S THAT WORD?!
Co-host Pranati "Pea" Madhav joins Ramjee Chandran in "WHAT'S THAT WORD?!", where they discuss the etymology of "HOIST WITH ONE'S OWN PETARD"
CONTACT US
Reach us by mail: [email protected] or simply, [email protected]
Or here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theliterarycity
Or here: https://www.instagram.com/explocityblr/
Next Episode
Tree And Serpent With John Guy Curator At The Met In New York
As part of Siddhartha’s awakening, he became aware of a spiritual energy in nature where trees had souls, birds had wisdom, and flowers bloomed no matter what the season. And snakes had the power of protection. And then there was all manner of mythical and hybrid creature contributing to the magical art and literature of Buddhism.
Of the many symbols and icons of Buddhism, there are two that are easily identifiable—the tree, everyone knows the most remembered thing is that the Buddha came to his enlightenment under one—the Bodhi tree—and another is the snake.
Snake cults have always been known to India as I guess there was always the danger of snakebites—still an issue today in most parts of India. But the snake features in the narrative of the Buddha’s life. In one famous story, a cobra coiled itself around the base of Buddha’s platform of the tree and then spread its hood over his head, to protect him from the elements as he reached his enlightenment. And even since, understandably, the snake has been used as the principal symbol of protection.
Happening right now, in New York City, as we speak is an exhibition called “Tree And Serpent” at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. It explores the origins of Buddhist art in India. The exhibition features more than 140 objects dating from 200 BC to 400 AD including sculptures, paintings, jewellery, and metalwork. It also explores the influences on early Buddhist art by other cultures, such as the Hellenistic world and the Roman Empire. The most significant slice of it is that this exhibition focuses on the contribution of South India to the Buddhist canon. Historically, the contribution of south India was often overlooked or downplayed and Tree And Serpent seeks to correct this gap in the narrative.
Tree And Serpent—not sure if I should call it a companion book—is the first book to focus on Buddhist art produced in South India from 200 BCE to 400 CE. While traditional narratives tend to focus on north India, this book presents Buddhist art from monastic sites in the south.
My guest today is John Guy. He is the author of Tree And Serpent and he is Florence and Herbert Irving curator of South and South Asian Art at the Met in New York. His scholarly association with Indian art spans a lifetime of work and I am deeply honoured to be able to speak with him today.
What I find amazing is what he had to go through to put this exhibition together. From ferreting out these Buddhist relics in remote parts of Andhra and other locations to shipping them to New York, the process would have been consuming. Amplify that when you consider that some of the heaviest pieces had to be transported, before the monsoons set in, by a boat, a ferry across the Krishna river and then on land to be loaded onto planes at Hyderabad.
ABOUT JOHN GUY
John Guy's research interests focus on the early Buddhist art of India and the temple arts of the Hindu-Buddhist-Jain traditions. He is an elected Fellow of the London Society of Antiquaries and of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.
Buy Tree & Serpent: Early Buddhist Art in India: https://amzn.to/3PbDzaS. Head to your favourite bookstore for a deal.
The Exhibition: https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/tree-and-serpent
WHAT'S THAT WORD?!
Co-host Pranati "Pea" Madhav joins Ramjee Chandran in "WHAT'S THAT WORD?!", where they discuss the word "MONIKER".
CONTACT US
Reach us by mail: [email protected] or simply, [email protected]
Or here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theliterarycity
Or here:
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