The Sims' Bing Gordon is Specifically Right

05/15/25 • 75 min

Our guest Bing Gordon has had a long successful run in videogames and tech. From marketing lead to Chief Creative Officer at EA, he helped shaped NASCAR, The Sims and other huge titles. We discuss pitching, two beer strategies and Speilberg's smoke test - this week!

Episode Highlights

[00:04:00] How Bing Gordon Helped Launch Electronic Arts

Bing shares the story of co-founding EA when it was a scrappy startup in 1983, including raising $2 million in funding and being the company’s one-person marketing department.

[00:07:00] Reading the Room: How Bing Predicted Game Success

Bing explains how walking into a studio could tell him whether a game would ship on time and be successful—drawing parallels to retail psychology and intuition.

[00:10:00] Meeting Trip Hawkins and Dreaming of Virtual Worlds

Bing recounts meeting Trip Hawkins at Stanford and discussing early ideas about creating a “virtual Disneyland,” which inspired their future at EA.

00:17:00] Why Bing Fell in Love with Games

He discusses his childhood fascination with puzzles, invented games, and the dream of living multiple lives through games, likening them to the metaverse.

[00:18:00] Steven Spielberg on Games vs. Movies

Bing recalls Spielberg’s take on video games as a “lean-in” medium compared to passive film watching, and how body language helped refine cinematic pacing.

[00:23:00] Designing the NASCAR Draft Meter to Win Over Critics

Bing talks about a near failure in NASCAR Racing’s development and how adding a visual “draft meter” salvaged the game’s perception and success.

[00:51:00] What Makes a Great Founder?

Bing shares his top insight into investing: founders who give you an insight you've never heard before are often the most successful.

[00:55:00] The Risk of Being 'Generally Right, Specifically Wrong'

He explains how being close to a great idea, but missing key details, can result in failure—coining the phrase “generally right, specifically wrong.”

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe
Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain
Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain
Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

Episode Highlights

[00:04:00] How Bing Gordon Helped Launch Electronic Arts

Bing shares the story of co-founding EA when it was a scrappy startup in 1983, including raising $2 million in funding and being the company’s one-person marketing department.

[00:07:00] Reading the Room: How Bing Predicted Game Success

Bing explains how walking into a studio could tell him whether a game would ship on time and be successful—drawing parallels to retail psychology and intuition.

[00:10:00] Meeting Trip Hawkins and Dreaming of Virtual Worlds

Bing recounts meeting Trip Hawkins at Stanford and discussing early ideas about creating a “virtual Disneyland,” which inspired their future at EA.

00:17:00] Why Bing Fell in Love with Games

He discusses his childhood fascination with puzzles, invented games, and the dream of living multiple lives through games, likening them to the metaverse.

[00:18:00] Steven Spielberg on Games vs. Movies

Bing recalls Spielberg’s take on video games as a “lean-in” medium compared to passive film watching, and how body language helped refine cinematic pacing.

[00:23:00] Designing the NASCAR Draft Meter to Win Over Critics

Bing talks about a near failure in NASCAR Racing’s development and how adding a visual “draft meter” salvaged the game’s perception and success.

[00:51:00] What Makes a Great Founder?

Bing shares his top insight into investing: founders who give you an insight you've never heard before are often the most successful.

[00:55:00] The Risk of Being 'Generally Right, Specifically Wrong'

He explains how being close to a great idea, but missing key details, can result in failure—coining the phrase “generally right, specifically wrong.”

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

Previous Episode

Portal's Kim Swift's Cake is Not a Lie

Our guest Kim Swift turned a student demo into the mega-hit Portal. Previously the Head of Creative for Xbox Games Publishing, she also did level design on Left 4 Dead and was Design Director for Star Wars: Battlefront II. We discuss how to pitch, owning IP on Mars and whether or not the cake is a lie - this week!

Episode Highlights

[00:00:21] Kim Swift’s Game Design Origin Story

Kim talks about how she got into game development by modding games like Doom and Quake, which eventually led to her joining Valve right out of college.

[00:04:37] The Birth of Portal: From Student Project to Valve

Kim explains how her DigiPen student project Narbacular Drop caught Valve’s attention and led to the creation of Portal.

[00:10:50] Working With Gabe Newell and Valve’s Culture

Kim describes Valve’s flat hierarchy, creative freedom, and how working with Gabe Newell shaped her career.

[00:14:08] Creative Constraints in Game Design

She shares how limits and constraints actually helped drive innovation in Portal’s level design.

[00:20:22] The Magic of Short Games: Why Portal Was Just Right

Kim reflects on why Portal was intentionally short and how the team prioritized player experience over game length.

[00:25:46] From Valve to Big Tech: Her Leap Into Cloud Gaming

She discusses her transition from traditional studios to roles at Amazon and Xbox, focusing on innovation in cloud gaming.

[00:33:10] Leadership Advice: Trust Your Gut and Advocate for Yourself

Kim offers advice for aspiring leaders in tech: trust your instincts, advocate for your ideas, and know your worth.

[00:42:15] Kim’s Hopes for the Future of Games

She envisions a future where games are more inclusive, emotionally resonant, and push the boundaries of storytelling.

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

Next Episode

What Have You Got to Lose with Blizzard's Michael Morhaime

Our guest Michael Morhaime was President and CEO of Blizzard during its glory years, shipping Warcraft, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, Diablo and more! Now Founder and CEO Dreamhaven he's won an Emmy and is in the AIAS Hall of Fame. We discuss red tape, how many billion dollar franchises you need on your resume and more - this week!

[00:01:00] Blizzard’s High Standards: Canceling Half Their Games
Mike reveals that Blizzard canceled nearly half of its projects to maintain quality, highlighting their ruthless pursuit of excellence—a strategy echoed by studios like Supercell.

[00:10:00] Founding DreamHaven: A Haven for Creative Freedom
Mike discusses how DreamHaven was built on the values that made Blizzard great: empowering internal studios, creative autonomy, and attracting AAA talent.

[00:14:00] Why “DreamHaven”? The Story Behind the Studio’s Name
Mike shares the inspiration behind DreamHaven’s name, emphasizing its vision as a safe space for innovation and creators.

[00:25:00] Early Days at Blizzard: From Electrical Engineer to Game Developer
Mike recounts how he transitioned from an EE background to co-founding Blizzard, even bringing the pitch to his dad for approval.

[00:32:00] First Console and Coding: The Bally Professional Arcade
A nostalgic dive into Mike’s first experience with programming via a BASIC cartridge console—a formative moment in his tech journey.

[00:44:00] Navigating Acquisitions: How Blizzard Stayed True to Itself
Mike outlines Blizzard’s acquisition history (Davidson, Sierra, Vivendi, Activision) and how the studio maintained independence through it all.

[00:50:00] Blizzard’s Secret to Long-Term Success: Prioritizing Players
Mike explains how being founder-led and focused on long-term value creation helped Blizzard consistently ship polished, player-first games.

[00:58:00] DreamHaven’s Future Vision: Platform Strategy & First Games
Mike talks about shipping on Steam, using Unreal/Unity for the first time, and the philosophy behind DreamHaven’s early development choices.

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

The Fourth Curtain - The Sims' Bing Gordon is Specifically Right

Transcript

Bing: [00:00:00] So is it hard worker genius? It gets it at 80%. I don't know, but I think it is hard work and genius. It gets past the 80%. I've had this disaster experience before when I've been generally right and specifically wrong. And to some degree that just means you're doing market research for somebody else who's gonna get it Exactly right.
Alex: That was Bing Gordon. The Bing Gordon. Uh, what an honor to have Bing on this podcast. Yeah. He had this phrase generally right, but spe