
Spilling the Tea on UK Fundraising w Fixing Fundraising's Andy and Tom
Explicit content warning
02/17/21 • 48 min
While many awful nonprofit practices exist, Andy and Tom are doing their work as responsible white men in our sector, to unpack what is really happening in nonprofits and philanthropy and use their platforms for good - so that we can all do better. So many great assets mentioned in this episode, here are links for content and definitions mentioned in the show:
- Michelle talks with the gentlemen of Fixing Fundraising podcast in the UK, Andy King and Tom DeFraine
- Hear their interview with Michelle and Vu Le, about Community Centric Fundraising!
- LinkedIn for Tom and Andy
References then Definitions:
- Here is the article by Baroness Stowell, Chair of The Charity Commission, titled: “If you want to improve lives through charity, leave political fights out of it” (posted on the conservative site, The Daily Mail)
- (And here is an article by my colleague Cami Aurioles title “Nonprofits Can’t Engage In Political Advocacy At All, You Say? Wrong. We Can And We Must” as posted on CommunityCentricFundraising.org)
- London’s 2021 NYE Drone/Fireworks display was really amazing. This link is from BBC.
- Saddiq Khan, Mayor of London, took a lot of shit for allowing “political” content into the NYE celebration, there are dozens of videos and articles about it.
- Captain Tom (Moore) and his recognition that the NHS (National Health Service) wasn’t resourced well enough during this pandemic, as well as his instigation of a mega fundraising campaign (1.5 million individual donations totaling over $32.79M Pounds ($45.47M Dollars), was one of the topics we touched on. Captain Tom, at 100 years old, passed away from COVID-19 related illness on February 2nd, 2021. May he rest in peace.
- National Health Service Charities Together (NHS Charities Together)
- Andy recommends listening to the Do More Good podcast, and specifically, Episode 62 with Ellie Orton and NHS Charities Together
- The Royals: Prince Andrew’s fall from grace, Prince Williams is the patron for Centrepoint, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle moved to Hollywood and started this pod we haven’t listened to yet...
- Andy refers to this article “Having a royal patron doesn’t pay for charities” (open in incognito mode for easy access)
- As a side, Tom mentions that Tea came from India, but he probably meant that a lot of tea has been imported to the UK from India from the late 1800s on. Deeper history = England’s involvement in tea actually originated in China. Check out this riveting quick history. I promise it's worth it. You might learn that the East India Company intentionally got Chinese addicted to Opium in order to get tea for a price they could afford, which was the colonization of India. The story involves mass murder/war and slavery. Fucked up. And the reason why certain tea-growing regions (like Assam) are some of the economically and socially devastated places in the world. Sarah Rose’s has a brilliant book about it, called For All The Tea In China. It's okay. The way I grew up I thought tea was Iranian. #themoreyouknow
Definitions:
- The Charity Commision as defined by Andy: “...it's’ the gov’t body that checks that charities are doing with their money what they’re meant to be doing. They check that there’s no fraud, they check that there’s no corruption, and they check that everything is operating as it should. In principle, that’s a brilliant b...
While many awful nonprofit practices exist, Andy and Tom are doing their work as responsible white men in our sector, to unpack what is really happening in nonprofits and philanthropy and use their platforms for good - so that we can all do better. So many great assets mentioned in this episode, here are links for content and definitions mentioned in the show:
- Michelle talks with the gentlemen of Fixing Fundraising podcast in the UK, Andy King and Tom DeFraine
- Hear their interview with Michelle and Vu Le, about Community Centric Fundraising!
- LinkedIn for Tom and Andy
References then Definitions:
- Here is the article by Baroness Stowell, Chair of The Charity Commission, titled: “If you want to improve lives through charity, leave political fights out of it” (posted on the conservative site, The Daily Mail)
- (And here is an article by my colleague Cami Aurioles title “Nonprofits Can’t Engage In Political Advocacy At All, You Say? Wrong. We Can And We Must” as posted on CommunityCentricFundraising.org)
- London’s 2021 NYE Drone/Fireworks display was really amazing. This link is from BBC.
- Saddiq Khan, Mayor of London, took a lot of shit for allowing “political” content into the NYE celebration, there are dozens of videos and articles about it.
- Captain Tom (Moore) and his recognition that the NHS (National Health Service) wasn’t resourced well enough during this pandemic, as well as his instigation of a mega fundraising campaign (1.5 million individual donations totaling over $32.79M Pounds ($45.47M Dollars), was one of the topics we touched on. Captain Tom, at 100 years old, passed away from COVID-19 related illness on February 2nd, 2021. May he rest in peace.
- National Health Service Charities Together (NHS Charities Together)
- Andy recommends listening to the Do More Good podcast, and specifically, Episode 62 with Ellie Orton and NHS Charities Together
- The Royals: Prince Andrew’s fall from grace, Prince Williams is the patron for Centrepoint, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle moved to Hollywood and started this pod we haven’t listened to yet...
- Andy refers to this article “Having a royal patron doesn’t pay for charities” (open in incognito mode for easy access)
- As a side, Tom mentions that Tea came from India, but he probably meant that a lot of tea has been imported to the UK from India from the late 1800s on. Deeper history = England’s involvement in tea actually originated in China. Check out this riveting quick history. I promise it's worth it. You might learn that the East India Company intentionally got Chinese addicted to Opium in order to get tea for a price they could afford, which was the colonization of India. The story involves mass murder/war and slavery. Fucked up. And the reason why certain tea-growing regions (like Assam) are some of the economically and socially devastated places in the world. Sarah Rose’s has a brilliant book about it, called For All The Tea In China. It's okay. The way I grew up I thought tea was Iranian. #themoreyouknow
Definitions:
- The Charity Commision as defined by Andy: “...it's’ the gov’t body that checks that charities are doing with their money what they’re meant to be doing. They check that there’s no fraud, they check that there’s no corruption, and they check that everything is operating as it should. In principle, that’s a brilliant b...
Previous Episode

Decolonizing Data w Anna Rebecca Lopez and Vu Le
Data can make a significant difference in addressing community needs and tracking progress towards a goal, but it can also be a tool of oppression, misrepresentation and erasure. From who is generating the data and why, to the assumptions and narratives created we must interrogate data practices and processes that can cause harm to our communities.
Anna Rebecca dropped a lot of concepts and knowledge, and Vu shared great examples, so here are some highlights that were mentioned in the show (sign up for our mailing list to get ahold of episodes early and learn more about these topics):
- Michelle talks with Anna Rebecca Lopez, a data nerd, activist, consultant and disruptor who believes in data for the people.
- This rad infographic shows part of a body of work Anna Rebecca created for the Community Centric Fundraising content hub.
- We also talk with Vu Le, nonprofit critic, speaker and author, and writer of NonprofitAF.com
- “Weaponized Data” was coined by Dr. Jondou Chen who is cited in this article by Erin Okuno and this blog post that Vu refers to
- Milwaukee Evaluation was also referred to and they are RAD
- Anna Rebecca, Vu and Michelle are all co-founders of Community Centric Fundraising
Here are some concepts:
- “Data is problematic in so many ways. It can be anywhere from how the data is gathered, who's using the data and even the types of questions we're asking before we even start in the data collection mode... Data in itself is used for so many reasons. It's used to make decisions for a community. Data is used to validate certain experiences or perspectives. Data is used to tell stories and oftentimes when those stories are inaccurate because of the data, it can cause serious harm to the communities.”
- Power Plays: “...oftentimes it's people who have power who are using data. It's people who have resources who are using data as people who have education, it's people who know how to use data and be able to read data and talk about data. And unfortunately there's a big gap between those who have access to data and know how to talk about it, how to use it, and the people who are in and of themselves contributing to a data set, or contributing information that then gets filtered into data. And so automatically right there, there's a big separation. There's a separation of the people who are providing this information and the people who are using this information...these are people in communities. And when we remove data from that understanding of humanity, it's easier to use data against people. ”
- Current trends in evaluation and research: “Evaluation as a tool that upholds white dominant culture, as a tool that even upholds white supremacy has been discussed since like the 1970s, especially when talking about culturally responsive evaluation, which is centering evaluation within the communities who are most impacted by the process. Now, just because that research has been around for 40-50 years now, doesn't mean that it's always being referenced or implemented...most of this work of culturally responsive evaluation...is led by people of color. And as we've seen people of color often not credited with the work that they've been doing.”
- An example of a data resource paradox: Vu tells a story about how a concept like the logic model, can be weaponized: And they rejected this grant because they're like, "Sorry, your logic model is not good enough". We weaponize these concepts, which often like A.R said, it's from people in power and who are people in power? It's going to be white folks. Who are the people at research institutions who were getting paid to throw the sort of terminologies and concepts and tools into the sector? It's mostly white elite educated individuals. And so this is a huge problem when funders are using this to gate keep funding, go into the community when they're like, "Sorry, you don't have a good enough data for us to fund you. You're out of luck". Well, how are organizations going to get good data if they don't get funding? So they're stuck in this data resource paradox. You can't get good funding unless you have good data, but you can't get good data unless you have good funding. ...So we are biased towards short term, white lead, tangible, easily measurable data an...
Next Episode

Collecting Courage w Nneka Allen
Episode Notes
Nneka Allen shares great resources that we’ve passed along in our show notes! Here are links for content and references mentioned in the show:
- Michelle talks with Nneka Allen, who identifies as an Afro-Indigenous woman, a proud Momma of a beautiful 25 year-old daughter, Destiny and a 6th generation Canadian and daughter of the Underground Railroad. She is the Principal of The Empathy Agency, Co-editor and author of the book Collecting Courage and Founder of the Black Canadian Fundraisers’ Collective.
References then Definitions:
- Collecting Courage: Joy, Pain, Freedom, Love is a collection of short essays by 14 accomplished Black fundraisers in Canada and North America, documenting racism and survival while working in charities.
- The Nazrey African Methodist Episcopal Church is a national historic site built in 1848 by refugee slaves, and it was one of the stops on the underground railroad. It is part of the Amherstburg Freedom Museum in Ontario, Canada, just outside of Detroit, Michigan.
- Decolonizing Wealth (the book and the project): The healing process of repair includes acknowledgement, restitution and closure.
- Here are some articles Nneka’s written:
- The Two Faces of Charity (Imagine Canada, June 2020)
- True Freedom (Charity Village, July 2020)
- My Indigenous Black History (ByBlacks.com, February 2020)
- A Currency of Another Kind (Advancing Philanthropy, July 2019)
- The Strength of Healing (AFP Global)
- Birthrights and Stonecatchers (AFP Global)
- Our Right to Heal was a project created by incredible Black women telling their stories about fundraising before Collecting Courage was conceived
- You can see a powerful performance commissioned by Nneka called “Conditional Invite” on video!
- Here is an article about Collecting Courage
- Article: Collecting Courage: Traversing the whiteness of the philanthropic sector as Black fundraisers (fundraisingleaderhip.org.)
- This podcast episode of Whiteness at Work with host Chris Conroy, features the three editors together! Nicole Salmon, Camila Vital Nunes Pereira and Nneka Allen!
- Nneka’s media kit is dope.
- Gratitude to Trick Candles for our theme song, called “I’m Gold"
The thing about this podcast is that it is self-funded! So if you love it, consider joining us on Patreon, and passing along to your friends and colleagues. Of course, it is super helpful to us too, when you subscribe on your fav pod player, and rate us! Write us any time at [email protected] or visit us at theethicalrainmaker.com
If you like this episode you’ll love
Episode Comments
Generate a badge
Get a badge for your website that links back to this episode
<a href="https://goodpods.com/podcasts/the-ethical-rainmaker-179504/spilling-the-tea-on-uk-fundraising-w-fixing-fundraisings-andy-and-tom-15585080"> <img src="https://storage.googleapis.com/goodpods-images-bucket/badges/generic-badge-1.svg" alt="listen to spilling the tea on uk fundraising w fixing fundraising's andy and tom on goodpods" style="width: 225px" /> </a>
Copy