Ukrainians’ Choice: Fight or Flee?

02/25/22 • 42 min

24 Listeners

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the biggest in Europe since World War II.

With the full-scale assault entering its second day on Friday, Ukrainians are coming to terms with the reality that the unthinkable has actually happened.

We explore the significance of this moment and speak to Ukrainians on the ground.

Guest: Anton Troianovski, the Moscow bureau chief for The New York Times.

Background reading:

Russia continued its attack on Ukraine early Friday, one day after it invaded the country by land, sea and air, killing more than 100 Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.
Europe faces a new refugee crisis, and harsh economic penalties meant to punish Russia are expected to reverberate worldwide. Here’s what might happen next in the Ukraine crisis.

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Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the biggest in Europe since World War II.

With the full-scale assault entering its second day on Friday, Ukrainians are coming to terms with the reality that the unthinkable has actually happened.

We explore the significance of this moment and speak to Ukrainians on the ground.

Guest: Anton Troianovski, the Moscow bureau chief for The New York Times.

Background reading:

Russia continued its attack on Ukraine early Friday, one day after it invaded the country by land, sea and air, killing more than 100 Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.
Europe faces a new refugee crisis, and harsh economic penalties meant to punish Russia are expected to reverberate worldwide. Here’s what might happen next in the Ukraine crisis.

Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter.

For more information on today’s episode, visit

nytimes.com/thedaily

. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Previous Episode

The Russian Invasion Begins

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After months of escalating tensions, President Vladimir V. Putin took to state television on Thursday to declare the start of a “special military operation” in Ukraine.

In the prelude to the invasion and as Russian troops launched their attacks, we spoke to our colleagues on the ground as they hunkered down to cover the fighting.

Guest: Sabrina Tavernise, a national correspondent for The New York Times; Anton Troianovski, the Moscow bureau chief for The Times and Michael Schwirtz, an investigative reporter for The Times.

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Background reading:

Areas across Ukraine were under attack on Thursday morning. President Biden condemned Russia’s actions, saying that he would speak to the American people later in the day.
Why did Russia invade? Here’s what to know about the Ukraine crisis.

Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Next Episode

The Sunday Read: 'The Battle for the World’s Most Powerful Cyberweapon'

Ronen Bergman and Mark Mazzetti investigate Pegasus, an Israeli spying tool that was acquired for use by the F.B.I., and which the United States government is now trying to ban.

Pegasus is used globally. For nearly a decade, NSO, an Israeli firm, had been selling this surveillance software on a subscription basis to law-enforcement and intelligence agencies around the world, promising to consistently and reliably crack the encrypted communications of any iPhone or Android smartphone.

The software has helped the authorities capture drug lords, thwart terrorist plots, fight organized crime, and, in one case, take down a global child-abuse ring, identifying suspects in more than 40 countries. But it has been prone to abuses of power: The Mexican government deployed Pegasus against journalists and political dissidents; and it was used to intercept communications with Jamal Khashoggi, a columnist for The Washington Post, whom Saudi operatives killed and dismembered in Istanbul in 2018.

Cyberweapons are here to stay — but their legacy is still to be determined.

This story was written by Ronen Bergman and Mark Mazzetti and recorded by Audm. To hear more audio stories from publications like The New York Times, download Audm for iPhone or Android.