A U-Turn on Tariffs

04/10/25 • 28 min

15 Listeners

After promising that tariffs against dozens of countries were here to stay, no matter how much they hurt businesses or the stock market, President Trump has abruptly reversed course.

But there’s an exception: his levies on China, which he said he would raise to 125 percent.

Jonathan Swan, who covers the White House, explains why the president changed his mind, and David Pierson, who covers China, discusses why Beijing won’t back down.

Guest:

Jonathan Swan, a White House reporter for The New York Times.
David Pierson, a foreign correspondent for The New York Times covering China.

Background reading:

Inside President Trump’s reversal on tariffs.
The United States and China are engaged in a risky game of chicken with no off-ramp in sight.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Photo: Eric Lee/The New York Times

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

After promising that tariffs against dozens of countries were here to stay, no matter how much they hurt businesses or the stock market, President Trump has abruptly reversed course.

But there’s an exception: his levies on China, which he said he would raise to 125 percent.

Jonathan Swan, who covers the White House, explains why the president changed his mind, and David Pierson, who covers China, discusses why Beijing won’t back down.

Guest:

Jonathan Swan, a White House reporter for The New York Times.
David Pierson, a foreign correspondent for The New York Times covering China.

Background reading:

Inside President Trump’s reversal on tariffs.
The United States and China are engaged in a risky game of chicken with no off-ramp in sight.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Photo: Eric Lee/The New York Times

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Previous Episode

The University President Willing to Fight Trump

3 Recommendations

Over the past few weeks, some of the most prestigious universities in the country have faced a threat to their very existence.

President Trump has frozen billions of dollars in federal funds in an attempt to rid higher education of what he calls its woke ideology.

Rachel Abrams speaks to the president of Princeton University, Christopher L. Eisgruber, who has vowed to fight.

Guest: Christopher L. Eisgruber, the president of Princeton University.

Background reading:

President Trump paused dozens of federal grants to Princeton.
Mr. Trump’s orders threaten the financial foundations of higher education, but few universities have protested openly.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Photo: Christopher Goodney/Bloomburg

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Next Episode

The Conservative Activist Pushing Trump to Attack U.S. Colleges

This week, we interviewed two people with leading roles in the rapidly escalating conflict between the Trump administration and American higher education.

Today, we speak with Christopher Rufo, who led the conservative critique of, and assault on, critical race theory and diversity, equity and inclusion efforts. Mr. Rufo’s vision and campaigning have helped inspire Trump’s wide-ranging crackdown on higher education.

Earlier, we talked with Christopher L. Eisgruber, the president of Princeton University, about the institution’s path forward in the face of drastic funding cuts, and his vow to protect academic freedom at all costs. You can listen to that conversation here.

Guest: Christopher Rufo, a conservative activist and writer.

Background reading:

Mr. Rufo helped make critical race theory a conservative rallying cry.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Photo: Chona Kasinger for The New York Times

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.