
NYTimes vs OpenAI: Generative AI and the Law with Cecilia Ziniti, Founder and CEO of GC AI
01/23/24 • 90 min
In this episode, Nathan sits down with tech lawyer Cecilia Zeniti, Founder & CEO of GC AI, the AI for in-house counsel. They discuss the origins of IP law in the US Constitution to promote creativity, the "fair use doctrine" and how OpenAI could argue ChatGPT is transformative, Google's patenting strategy around the transformer, and much more. If you need an ecommerce platform, check out our sponsor Shopify: https://shopify.com/cognitive for a $1/month trial period.
LINKS:
GC AI: https://getgc.ai/
Cecilia's Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/CeciliaZin
SPONSORS:
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of ALL eCommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries.From their all-in-one e-commerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/cognitive
Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off www.omneky.com
NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ head to NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/cognitive and download your own customized KPI checklist.
X/SOCIALS:
@labenz (Nathan)
@CeciliaZin (Cecilia)
@CogRev_Podcast
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:04:30) - Introduction to Intellectual Property law
(00:07:30) - Overview of main types of intellectual property - patents, trademarks, copyrights
(00:10:30) - Could Google have patented the transformer? Google’s patent strategy
(00:16:30) - Claim construction and its parallel to LLMs
(00:17:17) - Sponsor: Shopify
(00:18:46) - Practical impact of open source on ability to enforce IP rights
(00:21:47) - Litigation, internal data privacy, and communication
(00:24:30) - Copyright law and fair use doctrine for transformative works
(00:30:22) - Sponsor: Netsuite | Omneky
(00:31:42) - Big tech company lawsuits when money starts shifting between incumbents and newcomers
(00:34:10) - When judges like a technology...
(00:34:57) - Scraping and LinkedIn’s suit
(00:38:50) - NYTimes vs OpenAI
(00:40:00) - Copyright, creators, and music industry licensing
(00:42:35) - Transformative nature of work and “fair use”
(00:50:29) - Limits on getting injunctions and ongoing royalties from courts
(00:56:39) - Legalities of other modalities, like DALL-E images of copyrighted IP
(01:01:00) - OpenAI’s opt-out for licensing on the text modality
(01:03:58) - OpenAI’s weak to strong generalization
(01:07:00) - Pharmaceuticals and software, AI doctors, public good balancing
(01:10:40) - Why licensed professionals aren’t pushing back against AI
(01:15:36) - Duty to use tools for efficiency to a client
(01:17:04) - Impact of open source and ability to find someone to sue
(01:20:30) - Forward-looking thoughts on what IP laws should be for AI
(01:27:38) - Overview of Cecilia's company GC AI for lawyers
This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].
In this episode, Nathan sits down with tech lawyer Cecilia Zeniti, Founder & CEO of GC AI, the AI for in-house counsel. They discuss the origins of IP law in the US Constitution to promote creativity, the "fair use doctrine" and how OpenAI could argue ChatGPT is transformative, Google's patenting strategy around the transformer, and much more. If you need an ecommerce platform, check out our sponsor Shopify: https://shopify.com/cognitive for a $1/month trial period.
LINKS:
GC AI: https://getgc.ai/
Cecilia's Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/CeciliaZin
SPONSORS:
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of ALL eCommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries.From their all-in-one e-commerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/cognitive
Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off www.omneky.com
NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ head to NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/cognitive and download your own customized KPI checklist.
X/SOCIALS:
@labenz (Nathan)
@CeciliaZin (Cecilia)
@CogRev_Podcast
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:04:30) - Introduction to Intellectual Property law
(00:07:30) - Overview of main types of intellectual property - patents, trademarks, copyrights
(00:10:30) - Could Google have patented the transformer? Google’s patent strategy
(00:16:30) - Claim construction and its parallel to LLMs
(00:17:17) - Sponsor: Shopify
(00:18:46) - Practical impact of open source on ability to enforce IP rights
(00:21:47) - Litigation, internal data privacy, and communication
(00:24:30) - Copyright law and fair use doctrine for transformative works
(00:30:22) - Sponsor: Netsuite | Omneky
(00:31:42) - Big tech company lawsuits when money starts shifting between incumbents and newcomers
(00:34:10) - When judges like a technology...
(00:34:57) - Scraping and LinkedIn’s suit
(00:38:50) - NYTimes vs OpenAI
(00:40:00) - Copyright, creators, and music industry licensing
(00:42:35) - Transformative nature of work and “fair use”
(00:50:29) - Limits on getting injunctions and ongoing royalties from courts
(00:56:39) - Legalities of other modalities, like DALL-E images of copyrighted IP
(01:01:00) - OpenAI’s opt-out for licensing on the text modality
(01:03:58) - OpenAI’s weak to strong generalization
(01:07:00) - Pharmaceuticals and software, AI doctors, public good balancing
(01:10:40) - Why licensed professionals aren’t pushing back against AI
(01:15:36) - Duty to use tools for efficiency to a client
(01:17:04) - Impact of open source and ability to find someone to sue
(01:20:30) - Forward-looking thoughts on what IP laws should be for AI
(01:27:38) - Overview of Cecilia's company GC AI for lawyers
This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].
Previous Episode

The Quest for Autonomous Web Agents with Div Garg, Cofounder and CEO of MultiOn
In this episode, Nathan sits down with Div Garg, founder of Multion, to discuss the current state and future outlook of AI agents. They discuss benchmarking real-world tasks, the promise and perils of consumer AI adoption, predictions that 2024 may be a breakout year for personal bots, and more. If you need an ecommerce platform, check out our sponsor Shopify: https://shopify.com/cognitive for a $1/month trial period.
We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.
--
LINKS:
MultiOn: https://www.multion.ai/
Part 1 with Div Garg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2Mdlx5eik
SPONSORS:
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of ALL eCommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries.From their all-in-one e-commerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/cognitive
Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off www.omneky.com
NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ head to NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/cognitive and download your own customized KPI checklist.
X/SOCIALS:
@labenz (Nathan)
@divgarg9
@MultiON_AI (MultiOn)
@CogRev_Podcast
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) - Episode Preview
(00:06:06) - Current state of AI agents - still early with chat abilities, but logical reasoning lacking
(00:12:32) - Estimated timeline for usable everyday AI agents - focused on adoption and reliability
(00:17:41) - Architectures beyond language models - action transformers and process optimization
(00:22:00) - Context limits of current AI models - efficient context compression is key
(00:25:00 - Managing memory and knowledge retrieval in agents
(00:29:40) - MultiOn's own model creation
(00:30:16) - Sponsors: Netsuite | Omneky
(00:49:00) - Maturing agent capabilities beyond language with planning systems
(00:32:00) - Benchmarking agent capabilities on real-world website tasks
(00:59:30) - Inspiration from computer OS thread scheduling and coordination
(01:02:30) - Expanding agents to mobile for voice commands and authentication
(01:06:47) - AI agents complementing vs substituting human roles
(01:09:00) - Removing repetitive "digital chores" to change job landscapes
(01:11:36) - Sourcing high-quality demonstrator data at scale
(01:13:00) - Privacy protections when collecting user data
This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].
Next Episode

The Pixel Revolution Part 2 with Suhail Doshi, Founder of Playground AI
In this episode, Nathan sits down with Suhail Doshi, founder of Playground AI. They discuss the current state of AI image generation, how Suhail is building Playground while the technology for vision and image generation is still maturing, thought to image reconstruction, and more. If you need an ecommerce platform, check out our sponsor Shopify: https://shopify.com/cognitive for a $1/month trial period.
We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.
--
LINKS:
Playground AI: https://playgroundai.com/
SPONSORS:
The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your A I models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://brave.com/api
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of ALL eCommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries.From their all-in-one e-commerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/cognitive
Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off www.omneky.com
NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ head to NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/cognitive and download your own customized KPI checklist.
X/SOCIALS:
@labenz (Nathan)
@Suhail
@CogRev_Podcast
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Episode Preview
(00:44) The current state of AI image generation
(08:04) Are we currently at a GPT-2 level for image gen?
(15:40) Sponsor - Brave Search API | Shopify
(20:46) Shortcomings and use cases for GPT-4V
(22:46) Benefits of vision vs language
(28:30) Trajectory for what Playground will build next
(33:28) Sponsor - NetSuite by Oracle | Omneky
(34:48) How will the image generation experience change over time
(40:06) Thought to image reconstruction
(47:49) What if OpenAI fully focused on image
(50:09) Lack of training data in vision and the use of synthetic data
(51:30) Multimodal models increasing performance
(55:03) Images are information rich but lack the right annotation
(57:00) Building Playground while vision technology is maturing
(1:03:25) What should the rules for generative AI be?
(1:09:19) Parallel to the music industry and streaming for rev share
(1:12:21) What are the minimum standards that AI application developers should be expected to uphold?
(1:16:48) Wrap
This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].
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