33. Is ESG investing good for biodiversity? (Ken Pucker)

06/05/23 • 46 min

ESG is the latest buzzword in business & biodiversity circles, but it’s not actually new - only newly popular. And it’s one among many terms and acronyms in this field, which may be familiar but are often poorly understood - ESG stands for “environmental, social and governance” investing criteria. Understanding concepts like ESG is consequential because their success relies largely on convincing the general public of their value and their virtue. As we discuss in this episode, however, they are not necessarily all that they’re made out to be.

To elucidate this topic with me is Ken Pucker. Ken is a professor at the Fletcher School at Tufts University and Advisory Director at the Boston-based Financial Services firm, Berkshire Partners. He was previously Chief Operating Officer of the outdoor footwear and apparel company, Timberland, one of the first companies to take an interest in sustainable production. He has written extensively on ESG and related issues in Harvard Business Review among other publications.

Timestamps

01:47 A brief history of CSR, ESG, and sustainability reporting
09:41 ESG is not about the impact of companies on the environment
13:53 Other concerns about ESG
19:46 Impact investing
22:39 ESG makes policymakers complacent
26:36 Are CSR and ESG in need of reform or are they fundamentally flawed?
29:11 Investors care about impact, but not about how much
31:17 Shopping around effect
38:27 Transparency is not the main thing
41:35 Has TCFD had any effect, and will TNFD have any effect?
43:43 Should corporations serve shareholders or stakeholders?

Links to resources

ESG Investing Isn't Designed to Save the Planet - One of Ken's most recent articles in Harvard Business Review
Global Compact
Who Cares Wins 2004 - Publication in which the term "ESG" was introduced in 2004
GIIN - Global impact investing network
The Case Against Corporate Social Responsibility - Wall Street Journal article by Aneel Karnani
Do investors care about impact? - Article mentioned by Ken
When A Billion Chinese Jump: How China Will Save Mankind Or Destroy It
TCFD - Task force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures
TNFD - Task force on Nature-related Financial Disclosures

Visit www.case4conservation.com

Timestamps

Links to resources

ESG Investing Isn't Designed to Save the Planet - One of Ken's most recent articles in Harvard Business Review
Global Compact
Who Cares Wins 2004 - Publication in which the term "ESG" was introduced in 2004
GIIN - Global impact investing network
The Case Against Corporate Social Responsibility - Wall Street Journal article by Aneel Karnani
Do investors care about impact? - Article mentioned by Ken
When A Billion Chinese Jump: How China Will Save Mankind Or Destroy It
TCFD - Task force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures
TNFD - Task force on Nature-related Financial Disclosures

Visit www.case4conservation.com

Previous Episode

32. When should we question environmental orthodoxy? (Russell Galt)

There is a tendency in societies to adhere to conventional wisdom. We resist challenges to consensus views, and may even dismiss those who do challenge them as conspiracy theorists... which they sometimes are. But perhaps we take that idea too far sometimes. Perhaps we underestimate the importance of having the freedom to challenge orthodoxy. We live in an age in which more people than ever before are lucky enough to inhabit free societies, but recently it has become “conventional” to take issue with some of these hard-earned freedoms - albeit often with good intentions. Even people who don’t follow the news cycle must be familiar with the concepts of cancel culture and de-platforming. In this episode we discuss the notion of questioning orthodoxy, with a focus on the environment and especially conservation.

My guest is Russell Galt, Head of Policy and Science at Earthwatch Europe, and previously Senior Programme Coordinator of IUCN’s work on urban conservation and Young Champions of the Earth Coordinator with the United Nations Environment Programme. Russell recently complete a Master of Business Administration at the University of Edinburgh, to complement his earlier studies in ecology.
Timestamps
02:39 Historical examples of heterodox thinkers
06:10 False consensus in the scientific literature
09:42 Well-intentioned exaggeration in conservation
12:28 Thought experiment on fighting lies with lies
15:18 The robustness of truth
16:23 Harnessing behavioral science
17:26 Attention-grabbing figures as a means of promoting conservation
24:54 Less well considered threats to life on Earth; looking at the bigger picture
27:08 Nature-based solutions
31:07 Romantic notions of indigenous knowledge
37:30 Important of a culture of debate
Links to resources

The Science Delusion - Book by Rupert Sheldrake exploring the idea that science is constricted by assumptions
Messaging Should Reflect the Nuanced Relationship between Land Change and Zoonotic Disease Risk - Article in BioScience on the need for nuanced science communication
Promoting health and wellbeing through urban forests – Introducing the 3-30-300 rule - IUCN website introducing Cecil Konijnendijk van den Bosch's "3-30-300" concept on urban conservation
Summary for Policymakers of IPCC Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C approved by governments - IPCC webpage that makes reference to the loss of coral reefs under dofferent scenarios of climate change
Continued coral recovery leads to 36-year highs across two-thirds of the Great Barrier Reef - Summary of a recent survey by the Australian Institute of Marine Science AIMS report
Lo—TEK - Design by Radical Indigenism - Julia Watson’s website, with explanation and links to her book on how indigenous peoples and local communities use nature

Visit www.case4conservation.com

Next Episode

34. Is there still hope for the world’s corals? (Mike Emslie)

Historically, the oceans have received too little attention in discussions about the environment and biodiversity. On the topic of biodiversity loss in particular, however, one marine system has attracted almost as much attention as the rainforests: coral reefs. Coral reefs have even been described as the rainforests of the sea, thanks to their remarkably high levels of biodiversity. Recently, United Nations agencies have been voicing the alarming prediction that the world could lose as much as 99% of its corals within decades, if there is a 2 degree centigrade increase in average global temperature. Meanwhile, however, on the world’s largest reef system, the Great Barrier Reef, a 2021 survey had more positive news. It found that hard coral cover, which is used as a proxy for the health of coral reefs, is at its highest levels since the 1980s. That’s despite global temperatures already having risen by one degree over the past century. So, is the public being misled by messages of doom and gloom? Or are these seemingly contradictory messages somehow reconcilable?

With me to answer this central question about corals is Mike Emslie. Mike is head of the Great Barrier Reef Monitoring Programme and senior researcher at the Australian Institute for Marine Science (AIMS).

Timestamps

02:29 What are corals, where are they found, and why are they important?
11:28 What's special about the Great Barrier Reef and the "coral triangle"?
18:00 Why are coral reefs particularly important, among marine ecosystems?
23:19 How can we be losing corals if they are recovering on the biggest reef system in the world?
39:19 Are coral bleaching events a new thing?
41:09 Are we focusing enough on helping reefs to adapt to climate change, versus mitigating climate change?
44:20 Reasons to avoid doom & gloom messaging

Links to resources