Motion: Legally speaking, tokens are more like commodities than like securities (Lewis Cohen vs. Gabriel Shapiro)

12/24/20 • 75 min

Guests:
Lewis Cohen (@NYcryptolawyer)
Gabriel Shapiro (@lex_node)
Host:
Richard Yan (@gentso09)

Today’s motion is “Legally speaking, tokens are more like commodities than like securities.”
Today’s guests are two legal experts in crypto space. One of them will argue that token transactions on the post-ICO, secondary market should for the most part be regulated like commodities and not securities. He will argue that the tokens changing hands in said capital markets do not themselves represent securities, because they don’t capture the same rights as conferred in the primary transaction. He laid out his thoughts in the paper “Ain’t Misbehavin’: An Examination of Broadway Tickets and Blockchain Tokens,” which will be included in the show notes.
And of course, the other guest vehemently disagrees on this point.
Throughout the debate, we also cover the SEC vs Kik case and Ripple’s security status.
If you’re into crypto and like to hear two sides of the story, be sure to also check out our previous episodes. We’ve featured some of the best known thinkers in the crypto space.
If you would like to debate or want to nominate someone, please DM me at @blockdebate on Twitter.
Please note that nothing in our podcast should be construed as financial advice.
Source of select items discussed in the debate (and supplemental material):

Lewis Cohen's paper: "Ain’t Misbehavin’: An Examination of Broadway Tickets and Blockchain Tokens": https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3501764
SEC vs XRP: https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security
SEC vs Kik: https://www.coindesk.com/kik-sec-ruling
Lewis Cohen: https://dlxlaw.com/who-we-are
Gabe Shapiro blog: https://lex-node.medium.com/

Debater bios:
Lewis is co-founder of the New York based DLX law firm. His main focus is blockchain, tokenization, and other new capital raising techniques and structures. He was previously a partner at two of the Global 25 law firms, and his practices included securitization and other complex structured financings.
Gabe is partner of the San Francisco based law firm Belcher, Smolen & Van Loo LLP. He has published several pieces diving deep into US Securities Law, in which he shares his vision and philosophy for how Tokenized Networks should be regulated. His specialty also includes M&A transactions for high tech corporate clients.

Lewis Cohen's paper: "Ain’t Misbehavin’: An Examination of Broadway Tickets and Blockchain Tokens": https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3501764
SEC vs XRP: https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security
SEC vs Kik: https://www.coindesk.com/kik-sec-ruling
Lewis Cohen: https://dlxlaw.com/who-we-are
Gabe Shapiro blog: https://lex-node.medium.com/

Previous Episode

Motion: Today’s blockchains can’t increase TPS without taking a hit on decentralization, II (Evan Shapiro vs. Anatoly Yakovenko)

Guests:
Evan Shapiro (@evanashapiro)
Anatoly Yakovenko (@aeyakovenko)
Host:
Richard Yan (@gentso09)

Today’s motion is “Today’s blockchains can’t increase TPS without taking a hit on decentralization.”
This is a follow-up debate, or you can think of it as a re-match. Previously Emre from O(1) Labs also debated Anatoly from Solana on this very topic on the show. So make sure to check that out if you’re interested.
Here are some of the topics we covered:
* the inherent shortcoming of proof-of-stake in guaranteeing the canonical chain for a new full node
* why some chains have been designed to disallow rollback beyond certain point
* How Evan thinks faster synching process for new full nodes will allow further decentralization
* Why Anatoly thinks trustless synching doesn’t solve the Byzantine Generals Problem
If you’re into crypto and like to hear two sides of the story, be sure to also check out our previous episodes. We’ve featured some of the best known thinkers in the crypto space.
If you would like to debate or want to nominate someone, please DM me at @blockdebate on Twitter.
Please note that nothing in our podcast should be construed as financial advice.
Source of select items discussed in the debate (and supplemental material):

Solana: https://solana.com/
Coda: https://www.codaprotocol.com/
Weak subjectivity explained: https://academy.binance.com/glossary/weak-subjectivity
Long range attacks: https://blog.positive.com/rewriting-history-a-brief-introduction-to-long-range-attacks-54e473acdba9
Coda article on mental model of Scalability-per-unit-of-Decentralization: https://codaprotocol.com/blog/solving-the-scalability-trilemma
Byzantine general's problem: https://medium.com/coinmonks/a-note-from-anthony-if-you-havent-already-please-read-the-article-gaining-clarity-on-key-787989107969

Debater bios:
Evan is CEO of O(1) labs which operates Mina protocol, previously known as Coda protocol. He used to be an engineer at Mozilla and Personal Robotics Lab at Carnegie Mellon University.
Anatoly is founder and CEO of Solana, a layer-1 public blockchain built for scalability without sacrificing decentralization or security, and in particular, without sharding. He was previously a software engineer at Dropbox, Mesosphere and Qualcomm.

Next Episode

Motion: Bitcoin is a scam (Jorge Stolfi vs. Lyn Alden)

Guests:
Jorge Stolfi (@jorgestolfi)
Lyn Alden (@LynAldenContact)
Host:
Richard Yan (@gentso09)

Today’s motion is “Bitcoin is a scam.”
At the time of recording and release, Bitcoin reached its all time highs. And it just seems that every few weeks, a traditional financial institution or a well-known investor is announcing their interest in the orange coin.
Simultaneously, some skeptics continue to insist that this is all a mirage.
There seems no better time to visit this fundamental topic on the boundary of our entire industry.
Today’s debaters include a computer science academic and a macro investor. I am especially appreciative for the former to appear on this show and be willing to engage. Outside perspectives can be very sobering at times.
If you’re into crypto and like to hear two sides of the story, be sure to also check out our previous episodes. We’ve featured some of the best known thinkers in the crypto space.
If you would like to debate or want to nominate someone, please DM me at @blockdebate on Twitter.
Please note that nothing in our podcast should be construed as financial advice.
Source of select items discussed in the debate (and supplemental material):

Paper claiming unbacked Tether drove BTC price:
- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066
Papers dispelling the above notion:
- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3175876
- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3508006
Tracker of institutional interest in Bitcoin: https://bitcointreasuries.org/
Preston Byrne on why BTC is not a literal ponzi but is its own category of scam: https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/
Lifting BTC 21m cap via soft fork: "extension record" trick ala SegWit: https://np.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/43w24e/raising_the_21_million_btc_limit_with_a_soft_fork/

Debater bios:
Jorge Stolfi is a computer science professor at the State University of Campinas in Brazil. His specialty includes computer vision, image processing, function approximation methods, graph theory, computational geometry and other fields. He is a vocal opponent of Bitcoin. In 2016, he submitted a letter to the SEC outlining what he perceives as similarities between Bitcoin and fraudulent penny stocks or ponzi schemes. Jorge received his Ph.D. in computer science from Stanford in 1988.

Lyn Alden runs an investment research service for both retail and institutional investors at LynAlden.com. Her focus is on fundamental investing with a global macro overlay, with a specialization in currency differentials and equity valuations. She also manages financial operation of an aviation simulation research facility.