Implementing a Robotic Assisted Surgery Curriculum with Nahid Gul

10/24/23 • 31 min

As interest in robotic assisted surgery continues to rise among both qualified and trainee surgeons, the competition for getting those all-important hours on robotic systems is getting tougher. But with robotics not forming part of the core surgical curriculum across disciplines, getting all those interested access to units is no easy task.

But what if robotics was part of the surgical curriculum?

How and when would it be introduced to trainees? Would it be enough to give trainees the access they need to qualify? And how would institutions deliver this curriculum?

In this episode of Surgical Robo-Talks, Jessica is joined by co-host, Josh Burke (Academic Colorectal Registrar, Past President of ASiT and Director of Education for The RCS England Innovation Hub) to discuss the introduction of a robotics curriculum to the world of gynaecological surgical training. They’ll be joined by consultant laparoscopic and robotic pelvic surgeon, Nahid Gul, to discover how robotics training is being integrated into the wider gynaecological surgical curriculum and how it could be rolled into other surgical disciplines.

We’ll find out how robotic-assisted surgery impacted Nahid’s own laparoscopic practice and how it could benefit others. Plus, we’ll discover when Nahid thinks robotics should be introduced to trainees and how trainers should approach the issue of cross-platform training.

We’ll also ask:

(2:54) - What impact will robotic-assisted surgery have on surgical practice in the future?
(4:28) - How did Nahid transition from open surgery to robotic-assisted surgery?
(6:39) - When should training in robotic-assisted surgery start?
(9:46) - How should trainees prepare themselves before undertaking robotics training?
(11:49) - When (and how) should trainees be taught about different robotic systems?
(14:26) - Can there be a transfer of qualifications from one robotic system to another?
(16:31) - How did Nahid tackle the challenge of standardisation when it came to implementing a curriculum?
(18:14) - How can curriculums account for different robotic systems?
(20:03) - Are there any technical aspects of the gynaecology robotics curriculum that are agnostic of the robotic system? For example, emergency undocking.
(20:58) - How do you approach training the trainers?
(22:11) - What challenges did Nahid encounter when implementing a curriculum?
(25:05) - Does Nahid think a modular approach to training and qualification is safe and sustainable?
(26:47) - Is surgical training delivered via video and virtual reality valuable?
(28.23) - Are there any additional tools that can help trainees embark on their robotics training?
(29:31) - What advice does Nahid have for surgeons on their robotics training?

But what if robotics was part of the surgical curriculum?

How and when would it be introduced to trainees? Would it be enough to give trainees the access they need to qualify? And how would institutions deliver this curriculum?

We’ll also ask:

(2:54) - What impact will robotic-assisted surgery have on surgical practice in the future?
(4:28) - How did Nahid transition from open surgery to robotic-assisted surgery?
(6:39) - When should training in robotic-assisted surgery start?
(9:46) - How should trainees prepare themselves before undertaking robotics training?
(11:49) - When (and how) should trainees be taught about different robotic systems?
(14:26) - Can there be a transfer of qualifications from one robotic system to another?
(16:31) - How did Nahid tackle the challenge of standardisation when it came to implementing a curriculum?
(18:14) - How can curriculums account for different robotic systems?
(20:03) - Are there any technical aspects of the gynaecology robotics curriculum that are agnostic of the robotic system? For example, emergency undocking.
(20:58) - How do you approach training the trainers?
(22:11) - What challenges did Nahid encounter when implementing a curriculum?
(25:05) - Does Nahid think a modular approach to training and qualification is safe and sustainable?
(26:47) - Is surgical training delivered via video and virtual reality valuable?
(28.23) - Are there any additional tools that can help trainees embark on their robotics training?
(29:31) - What advice does Nahid have for surgeons on their robotics training?

Previous Episode

The Past, Present and Future of Robotic Assisted Surgery with Mark Slack

The UK Robotic-assisted surgery landscape has come a long way since it was first introduced in 2001. As technologies like high-resolution monitors, virtual reality, kinematic data technology and more continue to augment robotics, this surgical discipline is increasingly becoming more advanced at a tremendous rate.

But with access to robotic units among trainees so scarce, it can be difficult to keep up with the latest evolutions to truly understand how revolutionary the technology is becoming.

In our first episode of Surgical Robo-Talks, host, Jessica Butterworth (Society, KOL and Procedural Training Manager at CMR Surgical) and special guest co-host, Martin King (General Surgery Registrar based in Northern Ireland, and Immediate Past-President of the Association of Surgeons in Training UK & Ireland), speak with Chief Medical Officer of CMR Surgical, Mark Slack.

We’ll hear how Mark’s experience led him to a career developing the next generation of robotic-assisted surgery systems and how systems and training could be implemented into the surgical curriculum to improve the skills of both qualified surgeons and surgeons in training. Plus, Mark gives us his vision for the future of robotic-assisted surgery and details the safety measures we need to consider as AI begins to integrate into systems.

We’ll also ask:

(3:17) - What led Mark to his position as CMO at CMR Surgical?
(6:11) - How is robotic-assisted surgery benefitting patients?
(8:33) - What does the typical learning curve for surgical trainees getting to grips with robotics look like?
(11:11) - Will we see standardisation of techniques across different robotic platforms in the future?
(13:33) - Could skills be translated from one system to another?
(15:38) - How might big data and AI impact robotic-assisted surgery?
(17:46) - How far away are regulator bodies from assessing the role of AI in robotic-assisted surgery?
(20:21) - How will the increase in regulation and credentialing of new technologies impact surgeons’ careers?
(22:44) - How quickly should we integrate new technologies into the surgical curriculum?
(25:03) - How are robotic units helping with data capture?
(28:56) - How can surgical trainees set themselves up for a successful robotics education before getting exposure to the systems?
(31:14) - How does Mark see robotics evolving in the years to come?

Next Episode

Creating Effective Robotic Surgical Training Experiences

For robotics surgeons with long careers and a desire to pass on their skills, it can be tricky to get back into the mindset of a trainee. And this can make it hard to design effective training experiences that put trainees and their needs first. But for our guest today, the journey from trainee to consultant to trainer all happened within the last 6 years, giving her a unique insight into how to meet their educational needs.

In this episode of Surgical Robo-Talks, Jessica and co-host, Fahad Ullah (Colorectal Trainee and ASiT Past Robotic Lead) are joined by Consultant Colorectal Surgeon at Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust, Deena Harji.

They’ll discuss Deena’s journey to find out how she went from trainee to trainer and learn how her experience has shaped the way she teaches her own trainees. We’ll also hear what advice Deena has for trainees wanting to make robotics part of their career and we’ll find out what skills they can learn to help their robotic tuition along before getting hands-on experience with a robotic unit.

Plus, we’ll hear why mentors are so important and discover how trainees can find their own.

We’ll also ask:

(3:09) - What was Deena’s journey from trainee to trainer like?
(4:52) – Did Deena know that the future of her speciality was in robotics?
(7:28) – What advice does Deena have for trainees wanting to get experience on surgical robotic platforms?
(10:09) – Does Deena think that observing robotic-assisted surgery enhances or detracts from trainee surgical experiences?
(13:16) – In Deena’s experience, can there be a transference of skills from one robotics system to another? And what are the key aspects of robotic-assisted surgery that a trainee must understand?
(16:42) – How has Deena seen robotics training evolve and what more does she think needs to be done to improve training?
(19:52) – What kind of exposure to robotics would Deena recommend to trainees at each level of their journey?
(22:40) – What was Deena’s experience transitioning from trainee to consultant to robotics trainer?
(25:55) – Are there any low-cost solutions that can help trainees to acquire additional skills to prepare them for training on robotic systems?
(28:29) – How important are mentors in robotic-assisted surgery? And how did Deena find hers?
(30:50) – Where does Deena think robotics will be in the next five years?