Sober Curious

My guest today is the author and founder of The Luckiest Club, Laura McKowen. Laura is the first person I’ve had on the show twice. The first time, we were talking about her book, We Are the Luckiest, and I invited her back to discuss an essay she published in the New York times last fall, titled: How I Knew I Needed to Quit Instagram.

I could relate personally to so much of what she described in her piece, in which she compared her relationship with social media with her alcohol addiction. The essay also came out around the time that reports surfaced linking social media use to negative mental health outcomes, among young girls in particular, and it seemed to me like it was part of a much larger, and ongoing conversation about how we navigate our lives online in a healthy way.

As I was researching my questions for this interview, the parallels between social media and a substance like alcohol became clearer and clearer – and we get into all of that, along with what happened when her agent and publisher gently suggested that she get back on Instagram for the sake of her career. In the episode we discuss:

-The highs and lows of social media addiction.

-Moderating social media the way we used to moderate alcohol.

-Why both social media and alcohol capitalize on our need to be validated and fit in.

-Why it hurts so much to be unfollowed – and why we feel ashamed for caring about this.

-How the advent of the personal brand was enabled by social media – while simultaneously shaping how we use these platforms

-The impact on our mental health of constantly micro-managing our online personas.

-How social media create a climate of constant competition with one another.

-Why there is no such thing as being 100% “authentic” on social media.

-What makes some people more susceptible to social media having a negative impact on them.

-Finding other spaces to have more complex, nuanced, and thought-provoking conversations.

Read Laura's NYT essay HERE, learn more about her work HERE. Laura's podcast is Tell Me Something True.

And big thank you to amazing folks at bonbuz for partnering on this episode. You can order directly at bonbuz.com - and get 10% off your order with the code RUBY10 when you click HERE

Vasavi is a real force of nature, and she shares her story about using alcohol and cocaine to be all the things she thought other people wanted her to be—and how it was after getting sober that she finally discovered how to be herself. She was also diagnosed with bipolar and ADHD at age 20, and shares how, at the time, getting high was a way to explain away her manic and often self-destructive behaviors, which opens up a wider dialogue about substance use and mental health. In this episode we discuss:

-Vasavi selling her soul to cigarettes, alcohol, cocaine, and people pleasing, in her desperation to fit in

-Getting clear on who you are and what you want before you decide what to do with your life

-Losing touch with her inner voice - and sense of self - in the depths of her addictions

-The shame we feel around having needs, and asking for them to be met

-Using alcohol and other drugs to feel more attractive

-The danger of looking for validation and self-worth in social media

-Why cocaine became her “thing” – and how she also used it to medicate her bipolar disorder and ADHD in college

-How easy it is to be influenced by the company you keep – especially when you lack connection to yourself

-Why being a “high-functioning” addict can make it harder to quit

-Being rejected by her traditional Indian-American family following her divorce

-Not allowing yourself to treat yourself like shit

-Being diagnosed with bipolar at age 20 and why she chose to get off her medication after she got sober

Learn more about Vasavi Kumar and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @mynameisvasavi

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Athletic Brewing non-alcoholic craft beers. Free delivery on two 6-packs or more.

My guest this week is Marcos Salazar, whose organization For All Drinks is the official partner of the Dry January initiative in the United States. Marcos is doing incredible work to promote living alcohol-free, first and foremost by creating a platform that brings together all the amazing booze-free beverage options in one place.

But he is also deeply committed to helping enact social change, and his both his training in psychology and his background in the non-profit space, mean he has tons of insights into the wider impact of people across the board beginning to question our drinking—as we become more intentional with our choices and our work in the world.

He also has some fascinating things to say about how drinking affects our mental and emotional wellbeing—what he describes as our “psychological immune system”—as well as how to talk to loved ones about their drinking. In this episode we discuss:

-The intersection of alcohol abuse, entrepreneurship, and workaholism.

-How the Sober Curious movement is both reflecting and seeding social change.

-Why non-drinkers are “othered”—and why this reflects how quickly we exclude those with different needs to the dominant group.

-How alcohol-free options and lifestyles can be made more accessible.

-Why it’s impossible to live a fully “intentional” life while you’re drinking regularly.

-How alcohol and other stressors impact your “psychological immune system”—and what we can do to boost this instead.

-How quitting drinking helps us taking back control of our time, our attention, and our energy.

-How COVID has resulted in more of us experiencing “learned helplessness”—and how we can help ourselves by focusing on our wellbeing.

-The importance of “intentionality” when changing our habits in the long-term.

-Why having a drink is not the same as having a break (and why our brain gets confused about this).

-His partner commenting on his drinking being the catalyst to him getting Sober Curious (and how to talk to loved ones about their drinking).

Check out the For All Drinks HERE and visit DryJanuaryFestival.com for details of upcoming workshops and online events. You can also follow @foralldrinks on IG.

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode. Order online at drinkghia.com and get 20% off with the code SOBERCURIOUS through end of Jan 2021.

Chekesha Kay Ellis is a recovery advocate and certified family recovery specialist, and New Jersey state lead for Mobilize Recovery. As she celebrates 10 years sobriety from opioid addiction, an addiction that also robber her of her hearing, she shares her experience of being a high-functioning addict, how she ultimately quit cold turkey, and the cornerstones of her subsequent self-directed recovery.

In this episode we also discuss:

-The commonalities between opioid abuse and alcohol abuse.

-How easy it is for “legal” addictions to fly under the radar.

-Chasing feeling good vs. using to self-medicate pain.

-The role of both genetics and learned behavior when it comes to addiction running in families.

-The physical side-effects of opioids abuse.

-Habitual use of both opioids and alcohol just to feel “normal.”

-The wake-up call that made Chekesha realize she had to quit—and why it took another year for her to get clean.

-What she experienced in her month of going cold turkey—and what got her through.

-What comes after the “pink cloud” moment of early sobriety.

-The lack of access for deaf and disabled people in traditional recovery circles.

-The premature birth of her son—and the challenges of being a deaf first-time mom.

-Overcoming her challenges sober giving her a similar “high” to the drugs.

-Why we have to change the stigma around addiction if we want to make it easier for people to get help.

-How we view addiction and addicts differently through the lens of race.

Follow Chekesha on Instagram @chekeshakay to learn more about her work.

Thank you to podcast season sponsors Lyres—visit lyres.com/sobercurious to claim a special 15% discount code and follow along @lyresspiritco.

Thanks also to Grüvi for partnering on this episode—stock up online at getgruvi.com and use the code SOBERCURIOUS for a one-time 20% discount.

In this episode, I’m in conversation with the wonderful Lazarus Letcher, a writer, scholar, and musician, who is currently pursuing a PhD in American Studies, with a focus on folklore, Black liberation, and queer and trans studies. Their work in the sober space focusses largely on intersectional approaches to addiction and recovery, which means taking into account how identity impacts substance use.

While I was doing my research for this interview I looked into statistics around rates of substance abuse among different communities – which confirmed something that I had long suspected: that, as a rule, the more oppressed or marginalized a people are, the higher the rates of substance abuse disorder. For example, Native American communities have the highest rates for addiction in the US, with LGBTQIA+ communities having a 30% incidence of substance abuse versus around 9% in the general population.

We get into all of this, as well as the work Lazarus is doing in an area called “Peace Studies” – a syllabus that looks at the work of grass roots and indigenous liberation movements throughout history and shows how disparate groups fighting for social and environmental justice are in fact all connected. In this episode we discuss:

-Using alcohol to perform a toxic hyper-masculinity.

-How 12-step fellowships are evolving to become more inclusive.

-Why the LGBTQIA+ community has such high rates of substance abuse disorders.

-The problem with the term “minority stress.”

-Why we all do better when we all do better.

-Racism and colonialism as a cause of addiction.

-How they think about “decolonization” and how we can enact this in our individual lives.

-Their work teaching “Peace Studies” – and what this means.

-Why we deserve a world where we all get what we desire.

-Staying sober to spite white supremacy and live their best life!

Discover more about Lazarus Letcher and their work HERE and follow them on Instagram @l.nuzzles.