So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Konstantin Eggert, a native Muscovite, has reported on Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. He started his reporting career in Moscow in 1990. From 1998-2009, he was senior correspondent, then editor-in-chief, of the BBC Russian Service Moscow bureau. Later he worked for ExxonMobil Russia and Russian media outlets, Kommersant and TV Rain.

Now, living in Lithuania, Eggert is a vocal critic of the Putin regime and has more than a few thoughts on censorship in Russia: specifically, how it compares to Soviet censorship, the decline of independent media in the country, Russian history, and the war in Ukraine.

Eggert currently works for a German broadcaster, Deutsche Welle.

Show notes:

• Transcript
• Eggert on Twitter: @kvoneggert
• Rulers and Victims: The Russians in the Soviet Union

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“Words are weapons in the world’s most lyrical sport.”

That’s how competitive battle rap is described by the makers of “Bodied,” a new satirical film produced by Eminem about a college student who decides to write a thesis paper on battle rap and through a twist of fate finds himself becoming a prodigy in the sport.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we speak with“Bodied” director Joseph Kahn. Kahn is a filmmaker and Grammy-award winning music video director, who has directed videos for Taylor Swift, Imagine Dragons, Blink 182, Britney Spears, Maroon 5, and many other best-selling artists.

Kahn describes himself as a free speech absolutist. During the course of this conversation, we unpack what that means and take a look at the free speech interests in his new, controversial film.

Show notes:

• Joseph Kahn podcast transcript
• Bodied movie trailer: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oUry7CpMpCE
• Bodied is in theaters now and will be available on YouTube Premium on Nov. 28
• BodiedMovie.com
• JosephKahn.com
• “Joseph Kahn doesn’t care if he’s ‘canceled’” — Vulture, Nov. 2, 2018
• “Power/Rangers (unauthorized NSFW bootleg)”

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Last week, a would-be assassin attacked Salman Rushdie, author of “The Satanic Verses,” in an apparent attempt to carry out the infamous fatwa placed on Rushdie’s life. Fortunately, Rushdie survived the attack. Vice News Tonight correspondent and “The Fifth Column” podcast co-host Michael Moynihan joins the show to discuss what happened, what it means for free speech, and the history of “The Satanic Verses” controversy.

Show notes:

• Transcript
• Lara Bazelon’s keynote address at FIRE’s 2022 Student Network Conference
• “Sticks and Stones: Defeating the Culture of Bullying and Rediscovering the Power of Character and Empathy” by Emily Bazelon
• “From Fatwa to Jihad: The Rushdie Affair and Its Aftermath” by Kenan Malik
• Kenan Malik BBC Newsnight clip arguing that “The Satanic Verses” “wouldn’t even be written today, let alone published.”
• “The Tyranny of Silence” by Flemming Rose
• “Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought” by Jonathan Rauch
• “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media” by Jacob Mchangama
• “Private Opinion in America,” a national quantitative survey from Populace Insights that reveals Americans’ private opinions about sensitive topics
• “The Jewel of Medina: A Novel” by Sherry Jones

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This Saturday, Sept. 17, is Constitution Day. It was on this day in 1787 that delegates to the Constitutional Convention signed America’s Constitution. And while the First Amendment was not ratified until 1791, discussions over the role of free speech and expression in a democratic society were alive long before then.

Pepperdine University professor and author Gordon Lloyd joins the show this week to explore how the American conception of free speech came to be, from the colonial era to the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Drawing from over 40 years of research, Lloyd discusses examples of free speech and expression during the founding, ranging from 1641, when the Massachusetts Body of Liberties — the earliest known protection of free speech in the colonies — was published; to 1776, when free speech aided the decision to declare independence from Great Britain; to the late 1780s, when federalist and anti-federalist publications sparked, in Lloyd’s words, “the greatest pamphlet war the world has ever seen.”

Show notes:

• Transcript
• The Bill of Rights Online Exhibit on AmericanFounding.org
• “The Essential Bill of Rights: Original Arguments and Fundamental Documents” edited by Gordon Lloyd and Margie Lloyd
• The Federalist Papers by James Madison, John Jay, and Alexander Hamilton and edited by George W. Carey and James McClellan
• “The Essential Antifederalists” edited by William B. Allen and Gordon Lloyd
• “Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787” by James Madison and edited by Gordon Lloyd
• “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media” by Jacob Mchangama

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Jeff Kosseff is an associate professor of cybersecurity law in the United States Naval Academy’s Cyber Science Department. He is the author of four books including his most recent, “Liar in a Crowded Theater: Freedom of Speech in a World of Misinformation.” He has also written books about anonymous speech and Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

2:30 Jeff’s focus on the First Amendment

4:27 What is Section 230?

9:30 “Liar in a Crowded Theater”

16:27 What does the First Amendment say about lies?

19:35 What speech isn’t protected?

21:27 The Eminem case

27:33 The Dominion lawsuit

38:44 “The United States of Anonymous”

46:39 The impact of age verification laws

49:43 “The Twenty-Six Words that Created the Internet”

58:40 What’s next for Jeff?

1:01:35 Outro

Show Notes

Podcast Transcript

Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (2011)

FIRE’s guide to Section 230

Nikki Haley on social media anonymity

Schenck v. United States (1917)

“The Twenty-Six Words That Created the Internet” by Jeff Kosseff

NBC News: “Judge allows lawsuit against Snap from relatives of dead children to move forward”

“The United States of Anonymous: How the First Amendment Shaped Online Speech” by Jeff Kosseff

United States v. Alvarez (2012)

Transcript