Special Episode: Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law

04/21/25 • 18 min

On this special bonus episode of the Respecting Religion podcast, we are featuring a conversation that could not wait until our normal release date. In this still-developing story, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was mistakenly removed by the U.S. government from Maryland to El Salvador. His case and series of injustices are not just things that move all of us as people of faith, but there are also profound ramifications of this situation on due process, the rule of law and freedom for everyone living in our country.

Our next full episode of Respecting Religion will feature a conversation with Melissa Rogers, a lawyer who served in two different presidential administrations leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships. While recording that episode, the conversation turned to this ongoing injustice, and we decided that part of our conversation couldn’t wait until our normal release date.

SHOW NOTES

Articles with additional information:

Timeline: Wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador (ABC News)

Video: Jennifer Vasquez making her statement supporting her husband (ABC News)

Article: Democrats Land in El Salvador, Seeking Release of Maryland Resident (New York Times)

Interested in calling your congressional representatives about this issue? Here’s how you can find their contact information:

Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House

Click here to find your U.S. Senators

SHOW NOTES

Articles with additional information:

Timeline: Wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador (ABC News)

Video: Jennifer Vasquez making her statement supporting her husband (ABC News)

Article: Democrats Land in El Salvador, Seeking Release of Maryland Resident (New York Times)

Interested in calling your congressional representatives about this issue? Here’s how you can find their contact information:

Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House

Click here to find your U.S. Senators

Previous Episode

S6, Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times

There has been no shortage of news from all three branches of government in Washington, D.C., but one thing hasn’t changed: the U.S. Supreme Court continues to be interested in religious liberty cases. On today’s show, Amanda and Holly review the recent oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin, which focuses on a religious exemption in the state’s unemployment compensation laws. There are big questions being asked in this case, such as where one draws the lines, how can “religion” be defined, and what is meant – exactly – by the term “proselytization.” Plus, Holly and Amanda take a moment to step back and talk about the current attacks we are seeing on the rule of law in our country.

SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): Current state of the courts and various attacks on the rule of law

There are three church-state cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term:

Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (Oral arguments were March 31)
Mahmoud v. Taylor (oral arguments will be April 22)
Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond ( oral arguments will be April 30)

Segment 2 (starting at 08:00): Oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin

Visit the website of the U.S. Supreme Court for a transcript and an audio recording of the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin.

We played a clip from the oral arguments between Justice Neil Gorsuch and Colin Roth, who argued the case as the assistant attorney general for the state of Wisconsin. You can read the exchange beginning on page 81 of the oral argument transcript.

Holly and Amanda mentioned the 2021 case of Fulton v. Philadelphia. Read more about that case on BJC’s website.

Read Amy Howe’s coverage of the Catholic Charities case for SCOTUSblog: Supreme Court likely to embrace expanded tax exemption for religious charities

Read Adam Liptak’s coverage for the New York Times: Supreme Court Leans Toward Catholic Charity in Tax Case

Segment 3 (starting 26:48): Decision thoughts and what’s ahead

Amanda mentioned the upcoming Oklahoma v. Drummond case. BJC filed a brief in that case, and you can read it on our website.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Next Episode

S6, Ep. 13: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good

Melissa Rogers joins the podcast for a conversation about how each of us can take steps to promote religious freedom and the common good in the United States today. After leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations, she shares her inside perspective on government, where we are right now, and how people can truly make an impact. Our religious freedom protects everyone’s right to bring their faith to the public square, and you won’t want to miss this conversation about opportunities we have as Americans to engage government at all levels and express ourselves in the face of injustice.

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The genius of our constitutional protections for religious freedom

Melissa Rogers served as the executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations. You can click here to read her extensive biography. She is the author of Faith in American Public Life, published in 2019.

She has been on two earlier BJC podcasts:

Respecting Religion, S2, Ep. 06: What’s next? The Biden administration and religious liberty (2020)
The Dangers of Christian Nationalism series, episode 9: Religious freedom, church-state law and Christian nationalism (2019), alongside Rabbi David Saperstein. You also can watch a video of that podcast.

NOTE: On April 21, we released a special podcast episode recorded at the same time as this conversation, focusing on the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law. Click here to hear that portion of the conversation.

Segment 2 (starting at 10:09): Our current moment as a country

Here are links with more information from this portion of the conversation:

Melissa discussed the work of the federal government to protect places of worship. Protecting Houses of Worship is a helpful resource on this topic from the CISA (the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency of the Department of Homeland Security).

She also mentioned the Biden-Harris administration’s work on countering hate. One example is the United We Stand Summit in 2022: Taking Action to Prevent and Address Hate-Fueled Violence and Foster Unity. Click here to read more about the summit, or click here to watch the full summit proceedings.

In addition, the Biden-Harris administration released the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Antisemitism in 2023, and the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Islamophobia and Anti-Arab Hate in 2024.

Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.

Segment 3 (starting 16:52): Practical ways to take action

Here are a few resources and organizations to connect with if you are interested in responding to governmental actions, including by sharing information about their impact on you or your community:

DOGE cuts: