PUNK Therapy | Psychedelic Underground Neural Kindness

Dr. T and Truth Fairy welcome Greg Wrenn, a former Alabama state representative and long-time health policy advocate, who shares insights into how he became interested in the therapeutic use of psychedelics through personal research and professional exposure. Greg recently wrote a book called “Mothership” about coral reef research, ecological crisis, and his personal PTSD healing journey with ayahuasca. He discusses portions of the book and his experiences with Truth and Dr. T.

Greg explores the growing interest in psychedelic-assisted therapy, particularly its potential to help individuals who struggle with mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and PTSD. He addresses the shift from viewing psychedelics as taboo to recognizing their potential under controlled, clinical settings. His personal stories, alongside those shared by Truth, highlight the positive impact psychedelic therapy can have and how his passion for the issue has been fueled.

Truth Fairy, Dr. T, and Greg share concerns about the challenges of implementing beneficial psychedelic healing sessions, and they celebrate Greg’s integration of tribal and liberating dance into the ayahuasca ceremony. They talk about the importance of regulation, ethical safeguards, and integration of Indigenous practices, and caution against the risks of commercialization. The episode is both vulnerable and informative, painting a hopeful picture of potential healing even in the face of difficult times.

“You know, I'm no psychedelic evangelist. I don't think everyone should drink ayahuasca or work with psychedelics. I know I should, I know I need to. And so this is really important for my mission, which is to, I guess, spread a message of love and spread a message of the possibility of planetary healing, because planetary healing happens, at least with humanity, one brain at a time.” - Greg Wrenn

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About Greg Wrenn:

A former Stegner Fellow and Jones Lecturer at Stanford University, GREG WRENN is the author of the ayahuasca eco-memoir Mothership: A Memoir of Wonder and Crisis, an evidence-based account of his turning to coral reefs and psychedelic plants to heal from childhood trauma, and Centaur (U of Wisconsin Press 2013), which National Book Award-winning poet Terrance Hayes awarded the Brittingham Prize.

​Greg's work has appeared or is forthcoming in HuffPost, The New Republic, Al Jazeera, The Rumpus, LitHub, Writer's Digest, Kenyon Review, New England Review, The Iowa Review, and elsewhere. He has received awards and fellowships from the James Merrill House, the Bread Loaf Writers’ Conference, the Vermont Studio Center, the Poetry Society of America, the Hermitage Artist Retreat, the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and the Spiro Arts Center. On his Mothership book tour, he spoke to audiences around the world, including at Yale School of Medicine, the University of Utah School of Medicine, Vancouver Island University, and the University of Virginia School of Nursing. Greg has also been on numerous podcasts, including Levi Chambers's PRIDE, and was recently interviewed by Emmy Award-winning journalist Elizabeth Vargas on NewsNation​ and by Jane Garvey on Times Radio (UK).

​As an associate English professor at James Madison University, he teaches creative nonfiction, poetry, and environmental literature and directs the JMU Creative Writing Minor. He also teaches in the Memoir Certificate Program at Stanford Continuing Studies. He was educated at Harvard University and Washington University in St. Louis.

Greg is currently at work on a follow-up book to Mothership and sending out Homesick, his second poetry collection. A student of ayahuasca since 2019, he is a trained yoga teacher and a PADI Advanced Open Water diver, having explored coral reefs around the world for over 25 years. He and his husband divide their time between the mountains of Virginia and Atlantic Beach, Florida.

Website: GregWrenn.com

Book: “Mothership: A Memoir of Wonder and Crisis” by Greg Wrenn

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Website: PunkTherapy.com

Email: [email protected]

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Content Warning: Trauma, fear, physical pain memories

Dr. T and The Truth Fairy discuss a book by Tim Read and Maria Papaspyrou called “Psychedelics and Psychotherapy: The Healing Potential of Expanded States”, and really dig into two chapters in particular. One of these chapters involves the topic of therapists and substance use in underground psychedelic work: should the therapist take medicine with the client, and if so how much and when?

They address chapter four of the book which involves the excluded and repressed unconscious and how integration, through therapy and medicine, can assist when the unconscious is carrying an immensity of experiences. The Truth Fairy shares insightful stories from her practice and Dr. T refers to what Jung called ‘the transcendent function’. This is a thoughtful and informative episode exploring a very wonderful book.

“I think that it really, as therapists doing psychedelic assisted therapy, I know that there, I'm sure there's some clinical situations where it's an absolute no-no for therapists to do the medicine, a booster dose. And I do think it has its rightful place. But if you're in a period that you're very sensitized, and there's a lot coming up for you, or you've done a lot of your own medicine work recently, and you are quite open and raw, and you're still integrating yourself, I think those are the times to be wise and perhaps hold off and not do any.” - The Truth Fairy

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• “Psychedelics and Psychotherapy: The Healing Potential of Expanded States” by Tim Read and Maria Papaspyrou
• MDMA
• 5MEO-DMT
• 4-AcO-DMT
• 3-MMC
• Ketamine
• Jung: the ‘transcendent function’

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Content Warning: Trauma and abuse memories

Dr. T interviews The Truth Fairy as part of his research and together they explore the value of somatic therapy as well as how a therapist must be prepared for the journey when combining somatic with psychedelics.

Dr. T presents The Truth Fairy with some questions he has developed as part of his research, questions she’s not heard ahead of time. What results is a conversation on what somatic means and its importance to the therapeutic process. The Truth Fairy explains the differences between right and left brain tendencies and how somatic healing seeks to tap into the more creative and connective abilities of the right brain.

Dr. T addresses the idea of the relational in therapy and the concept of “relationship over outcome” which leads to questions about including medicine in the work. The Truth Fairy relates experiential stories on how somatic therapy looks very different when working with psychedelics and lays out things the therapist must prepare for themselves and their client before embarking on that journey.

“The body is an extraordinary, complex organism with so many systems, organ systems, all working in synchrony and collaboration on the best of days and working out of synchrony and out of collaboration on more difficult days. We have history inside us.” The Truth Fairy

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Somatic therapy explanations and techniques

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Content Warning: Sensitive stories and themes that include abuse.

In Part Two of ‘Touch’ in psychedelic therapy, Dr. T and The Truth Fairy explore touch from the perspective of the theory of ‘temporary celibacy’ and the idea of sublimating sexual energy into creative or sublime energies for therapeutic purposes.

Touch and connection are key elements in human thriving: as The Truth Fairy notes, one of the worst traumas we can suffer, especially at an early age, is touch starvation and emotional starvation. We are all seeking intimacy, relationship, and connection. It is how to use touch in a consensual and therapeutic way that Dr. T and The Truth Fairy explore in depth. How to, as therapists, adopt a notion of ‘temporary celibacy’ when approaching clients.

They discuss the Wheel of Consent and share experiences and stories from their own learning and practices where open lines of communication and observation regarding consent and comfort are established between therapist and client. Dr. T notes that the therapist must role model healthy boundaries within the relationship. And The Truth Fairy details how she addresses what Dr. T terms the ‘shame hangover’ when a client feels they’ve been too vulnerable in emotional disclosure upon a session’s conclusion.

“Temporary celibacy. A vow that we as therapists and practitioners and guides need to take every single time we embark on a medical journey or ceremony. ... To vow never to cross lines, never to touch without deep intention, never to touch without consent, never to touch without profound neutral intention.” - The Truth Fairy

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Wheel of Consent
• Logan’s Run

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Punk Therapy: website

Dr. T and Truth Fairy return with the second half of their talk with guest Dottie, a highly experienced therapist specializing in Gestalt psychotherapy, somatic experiencing, and trauma-informed work. Dottie and Truth Fairy resume the story they were sharing in the first part about a rupture in a medicine session that they had to navigate together. The story leads to a vulnerable discussion about emotional regulation, acknowledgement of feelings, the importance of touch in medicine sessions, and a host of other vital variables to consider when working through the surfacing and healing of people’s trauma.

Dr. T, Truth Fairy, and Dottie explore the complexities of relational dynamics, trauma, and healing, and Truth highlights the importance of understanding the multiple factors at play in any relationship, emphasizing that true repair involves mutual learning and deep understanding of the other person’s experiences. She explains how her own work with trauma, particularly infant trauma, has taught her to recognize the small gestures and subtle cues that can create or repair ruptures in neural connectivity. This attentiveness allows her to approach therapy with greater sensitivity and presence.

Dottie and Truth Fairy each share personal experiences that stress the significance of creating safe spaces for emotional regulation and healing, especially in moments of fear and dissociation. Dottie explains her hypervigilance toward abandonment and how this affects her relationships. She stresses the importance of a therapist’s full presence to help clients feel secure. Dr. T brings up the potential risks in psychedelic therapy if practitioners fail to integrate a developmental trauma lens, urging more training and awareness in this field. This episode touches on how therapists, through their own healing, can better support clients in addressing trauma, ensuring safe and effective therapeutic experiences.

“... the journey that we both have been on in the last couple of months has just been profound in being so committed to this process of repair. And I know that I keep banging on the word repair. But for me, I think that what's becoming clear is, is something that I really hold of high value as a therapist working with clients is in relationships with other people, the importance of holding space for others when there has been a rupture, and to hold that space of repair. And to be honest, this is what I have really learned from you” - Dottie

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Hunter, Gather, Parent: What Ancient Cultures Can Teach Us About the Lost Art of Raising Happy, Helpful Little Humans” by Michaeleen Doucleff
• Episode 36: Poly Roles and Relationship in Psychedelic Healing with Dottie, Part 1

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Contact Punk Therapy:

Patreon: Patreon.com/PunkTherapy

Website: PunkTherapy.com

Email: [email protected]