Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl Reprise

06/22/23 • 46 min

4 Listeners

Last week, the Supreme Court upheld the Indian Child Welfare Act in a case called Haaland v. Brackeen. The decision comes almost exactly 10 years after the Supreme Court ruled in Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl, which planted the seed for last week’s big ruling. To mark the new landmark decision, More Perfect re-airs the Radiolab episode that tells the story of two families, a painful history, and a young girl caught in the middle.

Voices in the episode include:

• Allison Herrera — KOSU Indigenous Affairs reporter

• Matt and Melanie Capobianco — Veronica's adoptive parents

• Dusten Brown — Veronica's biological father

• Mark Fiddler — attorney for the Capobiancos

• Marcia Zug — University of South Carolina School of Law professor

• Bert Hirsch — attorney formerly of the Association on American Indian Affairs

• Chrissi Nimmo — Deputy Attorney General for Cherokee Nation

• Terry Cross — founding executive director of the National Indian Child Welfare Association (now serving as senior advisor)

• Lori Alvino McGill — attorney for Christy Maldonado, Veronica’s biological mother

Learn more:

• 2013: Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl

• 2023: Haaland v. Brackeen

• "Baby Veronica belongs with her adoptive parents" by Christy Maldonado

• "Doing What’s Best for the Tribe" by Marcia Zug

• "The Court Got Baby Veronica Wrong" by Marcia Zug

• "A Wrenching Adoption Case" by The New York Times Editorial Board

• National Indian Child Welfare Association

• In Trust podcast, reported by Allison Herrera

Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project by Justia and the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Support for More Perfect is provided in part by The Smart Family Fund.

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @moreperfectpodcast, and Twitter @moreperfect.

Voices in the episode include:

• Allison Herrera — KOSU Indigenous Affairs reporter

• Matt and Melanie Capobianco — Veronica's adoptive parents

• Dusten Brown — Veronica's biological father

• Mark Fiddler — attorney for the Capobiancos

• Marcia Zug — University of South Carolina School of Law professor

• Bert Hirsch — attorney formerly of the Association on American Indian Affairs

• Chrissi Nimmo — Deputy Attorney General for Cherokee Nation

• Terry Cross — founding executive director of the National Indian Child Welfare Association (now serving as senior advisor)

• Lori Alvino McGill — attorney for Christy Maldonado, Veronica’s biological mother

Learn more:

• 2013: Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl

• 2023: Haaland v. Brackeen

• "Baby Veronica belongs with her adoptive parents" by Christy Maldonado

• "Doing What’s Best for the Tribe" by Marcia Zug

• "The Court Got Baby Veronica Wrong" by Marcia Zug

• "A Wrenching Adoption Case" by The New York Times Editorial Board

• National Indian Child Welfare Association

• In Trust podcast, reported by Allison Herrera

Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project by Justia and the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Support for More Perfect is provided in part by The Smart Family Fund.

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @moreperfectpodcast, and Twitter @moreperfect.

Previous Episode

Part 2: If Not Viability, Then What?

Now that the “viability line” in pregnancy — as defined by Roe v. Wade — is no longer federal law, lawmakers and lawyers are coming up with new frameworks for abortion access at a dizzying rate. In this second part of our series, More Perfect asks: what if abortion law wasn’t shaped by men at the Supreme Court, but instead by people who know what it’s like to be pregnant, to have abortions, and to lose pregnancies? We hear from women on the front lines of the next legal battle over abortion in America.

Voices in the episode include:

• Mary J. Browning — pro bono lawyer for The Justice Foundation

• Dr. Shelley Sella — OBGYN (retired)

• Greer Donley — University of Pittsburgh School of Law professor

• Jill Wieber Lens — University of Arkansas School of Law professor

Learn more:

• 1973: Roe v. Wade

• 2022: Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization

• Listen to Part 1: The Viability Line

Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project by Justia and the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Support for More Perfect is provided in part by The Smart Family Fund.

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @moreperfectpodcast, and Twitter @moreperfect.

Next Episode

Off the Record, On the Stand

Recently, On the Media’s Micah Loewinger was called to testify in court. He had reported on militia groups who’d helped lead the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Now the government was using his work as evidence in a case against them. Micah wanted nothing to do with it — he worried that participating in the trial would signal to sources that he couldn’t be trusted, which would compromise his work.

As he considered his options, he uncovered a 1972 case called Branzburg v. Hayes. It involved New York Times reporter Earl Caldwell, who was approached multiple times by the FBI to testify against sources in the Black Panther Party. His case — and its decision — transformed the relationship between journalists and the government.

Voices in the episode include:

• Micah Loewinger — correspondent for WNYC Studios' On the Media

• Earl Caldwell — former New York Times reporter

• Lee Levine — attorney and media law expert

• Congressman Jamie Raskin — representing Maryland’s 8th District

Learn more:

• 1972: Branzburg v. Hayes

• Listen to On the Media's "Seditious Conspiracy" episode. Subscribe to On the Media here.

Shadow dockets, term limits, amicus briefs — what puzzles you about the Supreme Court? What stories are you curious about? We want to answer your questions in our next season. Click here to leave us a voice memo.

Special thanks to the Maynard Institute For Journalism Education for allowing the use of its Earl Caldwell oral history.

Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project by Justia and the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Support for More Perfect is provided in part by The Smart Family Fund.

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @moreperfectpodcast, and Twitter @moreperfect.