Main Justice

As the fallout from the momentous Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity continues to reverberate, MSNBC legal analysts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord offer some updates, then turn to another significant ruling from the High Court out on Friday: Fisher v. U.S. At issue was whether the charge of obstruction of an official proceeding could be applied to Capitol rioters in the wake of their actions on January 6th. Despite the ruling in favor of the defendant, their guest Ryan Goodman of Just Security confirms the limited impact this decision will have on those charged for their role in the chaos of January 6th, and on Donald Trump’s election interference case in D.C.

Further reading: Here is the analysis Ryan, Mary and Andrew wrote regarding the Fischer decision for Just Security: The Limited Effects of Fischer: DOJ Data Reveals Supreme Court’s Narrowing of Jan. 6th Obstruction Charges Will Have Minimal Impact.

Last Friday’s joint filing in the DC election interference case before Judge Chutkan highlighted the deep chasm between Special Counsel Jack Smith and Trump’s legal team when it comes to how to proceed after the immunity decision. MSNBC legal analysts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord give their unique perspective on what both sides offered up and which arguments hold merit. Then, they head to New York to detail the second effort by Trump’s legal team to remove the hush money case to federal court, weeks before his scheduled sentencing before Judge Merchan.
*** A note: Shortly after this episode was recorded, the federal judge denied leave to Mr. Trump to file removal papers after determining that no good cause for the late filing had been shown and removal to federal court was not warranted. Next stop: Trump can appeal that denial to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

Also to listeners: MSNBC Live Democracy 2024 is now sold out. Thank you for everyone who signed up to join us this weekend. And if you didn’t manage to grab a ticket, we’ll be posting selections of Saturday’s conversations as a podcast next week, so keep an eye out for that.

Tuesday, the Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing titled: “‘When the President Does It, that Means It’s Not Illegal’: The Supreme Court’s Unprecedented Immunity Decision”, and MSNBC legal analyst Mary McCord was called to testify before the committee. She and Andrew Weissmann reflect on what she laid out for the Senators concerning the fallout from the Supreme Court’s immunity decision. Then, they review the flurry of filings in Trump’s DC election interference case, where Jack Smith’s team is expected to file a substantial opening brief on Thursday. And lastly, after weeks of harassment and bomb threats, a non-profit group in Springfield, Ohio filed citizen-led criminal charges against Donald Trump and JD Vance for repeating lies that have allegedly led to threats against Haitian immigrants living in the community.

Further reading:

• Here is Mary’s opening statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
• Here is the Just Security piece Andrew mentioned from Adam Klasfeld and Ryan Goodman, citing twelve instances of targeting supposed foes during the Trump administration: Chronology of a Dozen Times Trump Pushed to Prosecute His Perceived Enemies

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On Monday, July 22nd, MSNBC legal analysts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord spoke at a live event at the Center for Life Enrichment in Highlands, North Carolina. They touched on President Biden’s historic decision to exit the race, and the legal ramifications it could hold for Trump’s continuing criminal cases. Mary and Andrew also address the question of whether a president can pardon himself, and to what extent. And they detail the reasoning laid out in Trump’s motion to vacate his New York conviction based on the Supreme Court’s decision on presidential immunity, and if any of the arguments hold water.

Note: Listeners can send questions to: [email protected]

After Judge Tanya Chutkan ordered a redacted version of the government's filing on immunity to be released, new information about Donald Trump’s post-election efforts came to light. Jack Smith argues that the allegations detailed in the filing were "fundamentally" done as a candidate, and not in an official capacity. Veteran prosecutors Mary McCord and Andrew Weissmann frame the government's case, describing the new allegations now in the public sphere and Trump’s continued assertion that this is “election interference.” Then, they review another motion to dismiss brought by Trump’s lawyers, this one referencing the Fischer case.

Also, some exciting news! Prosecuting Donald Trump and Into America have been nominated for the Signal Listener's Choice Award! And MSNBC needs your help to win. Use the links below to vote for both shows:

• Prosecuting Donald Trump in the Shows - News & Politics category.
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Further Reading: Here is Special Counsel Jack Smith’s unsealed Motion for Immunity Determinations.

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