Is It Rolling, Bob? Talking Dylan

Comedian and columnist Stewart Lee remains “grateful to the people who brainwashed me into listening to Bob Dylan during a period of emotional and physical weakness.” He remembers seeing Dylan live at Hyde Park with his kids (“one of the greatest nights of my life”) as well as the time he alienated the audience at a Teenage Cancer Trust Benefit. “It was a good gig. 'Cause it was true. Self-sabotage keeps you alive. Chaos and confusion create a bubble that protects you.” Stew namechecks Dylan, Mark E. Smith, Jerry Sadowitz, William Blake, Roky Erickson and Mozart as fellow artists who “develop a split personality that says: what if I make him do this?” Warning: listeners should keep in mind that Mr Lee is “a cultural bully from the Oxbridge Mafia who wants to appear morally superior but couldn’t cut the mustard on a panel game.” (Lee Mack)

This is a review (Dominic Maxwell, The Times) of Stewart’s current show, Basic Lee: "If someone says they’re going back to basics, can they be trusted? When Stewart Lee tells you he is going back to basics you sniff only fresh mischief in his chortlingly bold smush of sarcasm, satire, self-commentary and alternately lugubrious and exultant flights of fancy. It is hard, Lee tells us, to try to be funny in these days of frenetic social and political change. So he bookends this new show, which he wants to stay relevant until its tour ends in 2024, with a reworking of a routine he first performed at the start of his career in 1989. Self-plagiarism? Actually, Lee could profitably spend the rest of his career rejigging old routines, much as Miles Davis was able to find endless new takes on Stella by Starlight. At his best, as he delivers a comedy show that is a kind of lecture about comedy shows, he cheeks the crowd so surely that the effect is insulting yet intimate. Basic Lee is one of his more pretzel-shaped evenings. If its inner logic isn’t always easy to grasp, who cares when something is rendered with this much wit and verve? What’s it all about? It’s all about two hours long, it’s all very clever, but, basically, Basic Lee is very funny."

"What would it be like if Bob Dylan from the 60's took a look a stand-up comedy today?"

The Dream Syndicate's cover of Blind Willie McTell (1988)

Steve Wynn, Murder Most Foul (2020)

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Recorded 16th November 2022

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Patti Smith Group guitarist and author Lenny Kaye reminds us that “Bob Dylan is still experimenting, seeing who he might be, putting on the weirdest shows ever, upending barriers”. Almost in one breath, Lenny gives forth on working with or listening to Suzanne Vega, John Coltrane, Gayle, The Stooges, Brian Eno, The Byrds, Bing Crosby and Janis Joplin (“I wanted her to be my girlfriend”). His colleague Patti Smith fought for “the freedom to have a field of noise, beyond language. But also: a hit single.” Elvis “is an extraterrestrial: a mutation”. And after two tours supporting Dylan, he confirms that “Bob is private backstage. You’re instructed not to look at him. But that was OK. I don’t want to meet my idols”. A wise man. And a perfect podcast guest.

Lenny Kaye has been the guitarist for The Patti Smith Group since the band's inception in 1974. He produced Patti’s first single and worked on the band’s hugely influential 70s albums: Horses, Easter, Radio Ethiopia and Wave. Lenny has also produced and/or played with dozens of artists such as R.E.M., James, Soul Asylum, Kristen Hersh and Allen Ginsberg. His seminal anthology of 60s garage rock, Nuggets, defined the genre. His first book was Waylon, The Life Story of Waylon Jennings. You Call It Madness: The Sensuous Song of the Croon was published in 2004. His current book is Lightning Striking: Ten Transformative Moments in Rock and Roll. Lenny also wrote the liner notes to the accompanying double CD (he has been nominated three times for Grammy awards in the liner notes category). As a freelancer, he has written for a wide range of periodicals, including Melody Maker, Creem and Rolling Stone.

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Dark Eyes (duet between Dylan and Patti Smith)

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Recorded 28th June 2022

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Journalist Richard Williams joins us to talk Dylan and to surf “the waves of his career”, from Freewheelin’ (“one revelation after another”) to Murder Most Foul (“I was astonished by it. The level of detail. It’s like a John Coltrane quartet.”). Richard reminds us of “one of the great things I learned from Dylan: if you don’t understand something, that doesn’t invalidate it”.

Our discussion includes generally unloved albums like Knocked Out Loaded (“Brownsville Girl contains the best single line of phrasing in Dylan’s entire canon”) and Down In The Groove (“we all lose our way a bit but the last three tracks are really very good”). Since writing his 1991 Bob Dylan book, A Man Called Alias, Richard has remained a true believer. “His phrasing has always been astonishing. Like that list of flowers he recites on Theme Time Radio Hour. He reads a seed catalogue and makes it sound like Visions of Johanna”. Prepare for the concise and clear musings of one of the best Bob brains out there in this ‘lectric episode.

Richard Williams is a music and sports journalist. He was a writer, then deputy editor, at the weekly music newspaper Melody Maker, where he became an influential commentator on the rise of rock music in the 1960s. From 1970, he contributed to the Times. He left journalism to join Island Records’ A & R department, becoming department head. He was the first presenter of the BBC2 rock show The Old Grey Whistle Test and later became editor of the London listings guide Time Out and then Melody Maker. He also worked at the Sunday Times and the Independent On Sunday. Richard’s music journalism has been gathered in the volume Long Distance Call: Writings On Music. He has written biographies of Dylan, Miles Davis (The Man In The Green Shirt) and Phil Spector (Out Of His Head). Williams is also the former chief sports writer of the Guardian (he has written several books on Formula One). His comments about music and film, photography and art are published in his blog, The Blue Moment.

Bob Dylan: Where to start in his back catalogue (The Guardian)

The Band at the Albert Hall

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Recorded 16th March 2021

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