
The Woke Burnout Is Real — and Politics Is Catching Up
09/07/23 • 40 min
4 Listeners
Classrooms have been a key battleground in the so-called woke wars for years now. But could the debate over how schools teach history, race, gender and sexuality be coming to an end?
This week on “Matter of Opinion,” the hosts look at signs that these wedge issues are no longer dividing us, ask whether we have reached “peak woke” and disagree on whether it’s even worth fighting about wokeness at all.
Mentioned in this episode:
- “Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus,” by Rick Perlstein
- Nathan Hale’s Hazardous Tales series, by Nathan Hale
- The Adventures of Tintin comic series, by Hergé
- The Adventures of Asterix comic series, by René Goscinny and Albert Uderzo
- The American Bicentennial Series, by John Jakes
- “The Soul of America: The Battle for Our Better Angels,” by Jon Meacham
Soon, you’ll need a subscription to maintain access to this show's back catalog, and the back catalogs of other New York Times podcasts, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Don’t miss out on exploring all of our shows, featuring everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts.
Classrooms have been a key battleground in the so-called woke wars for years now. But could the debate over how schools teach history, race, gender and sexuality be coming to an end?
This week on “Matter of Opinion,” the hosts look at signs that these wedge issues are no longer dividing us, ask whether we have reached “peak woke” and disagree on whether it’s even worth fighting about wokeness at all.
Mentioned in this episode:
- “Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus,” by Rick Perlstein
- Nathan Hale’s Hazardous Tales series, by Nathan Hale
- The Adventures of Tintin comic series, by Hergé
- The Adventures of Asterix comic series, by René Goscinny and Albert Uderzo
- The American Bicentennial Series, by John Jakes
- “The Soul of America: The Battle for Our Better Angels,” by Jon Meacham
Soon, you’ll need a subscription to maintain access to this show's back catalog, and the back catalogs of other New York Times podcasts, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Don’t miss out on exploring all of our shows, featuring everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts.
Previous Episode

Is It Time to Negotiate With Putin?
It’s been 18 months since Russia invaded Ukraine. No true negotiations have happened. As the stalemate continues, what role should the United States play in the fight?
This week on “Matter of Opinion,” the hosts discuss how the war is playing out at home and whether there’s actually more American enthusiasm for invading Mexico.
Plus, a trip back in time to a magical land of sorcerers and “Yo! MTV Raps.”
Mentioned in this episode:
- “An Unwinnable War,” by Samuel Charap in Foreign Affairs
- “The Runaway General,” by Michael Hastings in Rolling Stone
- “First Person: An Astonishingly Frank Self-Portrait by Russia’s President Vladimir Putin,” by Vladimir Putin
Soon, you’ll need a subscription to maintain access to this show's back catalog, and the back catalogs of other New York Times podcasts, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Don’t miss out on exploring all of our shows, featuring everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts.
Next Episode

‘A Red State Strategy to Create a Blue State Crisis’
Hundreds of thousands of migrants, many seeking asylum, have arrived in the United States over the last year, overwhelming already-strained resources in cities and states across the country. Last week, in arguably one of the most immigration-friendly cities in the country, Mayor Eric Adams said that migrants would “destroy New York City.”
This week on “Matter of Opinion,” the hosts discuss how the “border crisis” has come to frustrate Democratic politicians further north, and why the conversation about immigration is always actually about who we are as Americans.
(A transcript of this episode can be found at the top of the episode page on the Times website.)
Mentioned in this episode:
- “Michael Bloomberg: How Biden and Congress Should Fix the Immigration Crisis in Our Cities,” by Michael R. Bloomberg in The New York Times
- “Americans Still Value Immigration, but Have Concerns,” by Lydia Saad in Gallup
Soon, you’ll need a subscription to maintain access to this show's back catalog, and the back catalogs of other New York Times podcasts, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Don’t miss out on exploring all of our shows, featuring everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts.
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