Log in

goodpods headphones icon

To access all our features

Open the Goodpods app
Close icon
headphones
Inside The Outer Loop

Inside The Outer Loop

Curiosity Software

1 Creator

1 Creator

Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
Share icon

What is Why Didn't You Test That? about?

The Curiosity Software Podcast featuring Huw Price, Rich Jordan and the Curiosity team! Together, they share their insight and expertise in driving software design and development in test. Learn how you can improve your journey to quality software delivery, by considering how much do you really understand about your systems, and when things inevitably go wrong, why didn’t you test that? We align to the audience/listener with the guest's pov/discipline, and the guest is prompted to make an introduction of 'how their discipline has impacts on quality assurance, and segways into the broader or specific talking points.

All episodes

Best episodes

Top 10 Inside The Outer Loop Episodes

Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Inside The Outer Loop episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Inside The Outer Loop for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Inside The Outer Loop episode by adding your comments to the episode page.

Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 12: The Legacy System Conundrum with Nalin Parbhu
play

01/30/24 • 56 min

Welcome to episode 12 of Inside The Outer Loop, hosted by Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan! In this episode, our hosts are joined by Nalin Parbhu, Founder & CEO at Infuse, together they discuss digital transformation challenges for organisations struggling with legacy systems, limited budgets, and a reactive approach to change. Listen to this episode of the Why Didn't You Test That? Podcast to learn from Nalin Parbhu's experience working with higher education institutions, which face unique challenges due to the complex nature of their systems and integrations. Additionally, discover why digital transformation and cloud adoption are driven by the need for scalability, flexibility, and improved user experiences. The use of outdated on-premise systems and customization of off-the-shelf solutions has introduced maintenance and upgrade difficulties. Budget constraints and competing priorities impact IT investments, while limited operational budgets often result in a focus on capital expenditure, leading to delayed or constrained IT initiatives. Huw Price describes how testing and quality assurance play a crucial role in successful software implementation. However, the lack of standardized processes and the use of point-to-point integrations and legacy systems has led to increased complexity and higher maintenance costs. Nalin Parbhu concludes that organisations are finally starting to recognize the importance of automated testing and the need for disciplined test environments and data management. Rich Jordan adds that there's a need for clear requirements, well-defined acceptance criteria, and accountability to ensure successful partnerships and quality. Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Welcome to episode 18 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and CEO James Walker are joined by Chris Harbert, an industry executive and host of the Developers Who Test but also founder and CEO of Testery. Together they discuss the organizational challenges in defining quality. So, quality is essential in software delivery. But, who actually owns quality? if that’s a reasonable question to ask. Collaboration between developers and testers is crucial for achieving quality and a mutual respect and involvement in bug fixes can bridge the gap between the two roles and improve overall product quality. But can this lead to the ‘bystander effect’? in which no one seems to be responsible for quality. Increasingly due to legacy systems organizations need to address their technical debt and complexity to improve quality, so saving a clear plan, architectural overview, and leveraging test automation can help untangle legacy systems and pave the way for better quality practices. This can enhance testability and reduce toil during sprints. And what of metrics which play a crucial role in measuring quality? Key metrics include bug discovery rates, test coverage, customer satisfaction scores, and support team efforts. These metrics provide insights into the effectiveness of quality initiatives and highlight areas for improvement. Finally, as with any episode of Why Didn’t You Test That? we consider AIs impact your testing effort. Generative AI and non-deterministic behaviour may complicate testing, so requiring skilled testers is paramount to ensure you’re leveraging in line with organizational quality objectives in meeting customer expectations, but also providing a good user experience. Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Welcome to episode 25 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Ben Riley are joined by special guest Natalie Cole, a QE Team Manager and Quality Advocate. Together, they discuss the people, processes, and technology involved in building a successful QA team! Natalie Cole, starts the discussion by sharing her experience managing a team of 10 QAs and software engineers. She highlights the importance of people, process, and technology in building a successful team. Natalie emphasizes the need for the right people with the right skills and work ethics, implementing best practices and processes, and utilizing the right technologies. She also discusses the challenges of shifting towards a test pyramid approach and the importance of involving QA in all phases of the software development life cycle. Natalie advocates for QA and emphasizes the financial and brand benefits of quality testing. The most important aspect for Natalie is catching the majority of defects in QA before critical defects reach production. She emphasizes the importance of conducting root cause analysis and post-mortems to understand and prevent defects. Rich Jordan adds that psychological safety is crucial in using metrics effectively and avoiding blame. The conversation also covers Natalie’s approach to hiring, focusing on work ethic and asking detailed questions about past projects. Natalie also mentions the importance of self-education and staying up-to-date with industry trends. The team also touches on the benefits of practising Behaviour Driven Development (BDD) and the importance of communication and collaboration in eliminating defects early. Natalie advises QE managers to believe in themselves, understand their leadership style, and continuously improve their processes. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 8: The Liberated Tester’s Mindset with Gunesh Patil
play

09/27/23 • 45 min

Welcome to episode 8 of Inside The Outer Loop, hosted by by Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan! In this follow-up episode with Gunesh Patil, The Liberated Tester, Rich and Gunesh share their insights into what it means to be a liberated tester and how they approached the adoption of agile methodologies! Rich and Gunesh propose the idea of using squads, working to a blank canvas, can obtain a better level of DevOps and agile ways of working. However, a lack of focus on spinning up teams to do integration testing ahead of bulky end-to-end testing, may lead organisations into a blinkered cargo cult way of working. The cargo cult way of working adds difficulty to sustaining a bi-weekly change cadence, by injected chaos in the system with every incremental change. In terms of toolsets and architecture, a blank canvas helps squads see what’s not working and thus the challenges to face into. Gunesh suggests that emphasis needs to be on what’s possible to build rather than on the toolsets alone for avoiding sprints defaulting to mini waterfalls. This holistic approach enables stakeholders are to see and communicate requirements but also data dependencies. At a high level, this boosts the success rate of a test strategy, as many angles will have already been considered, providing an outcome of good documentation rather than a reliance on head knowledge. In part, model-based testing gets teams making use of this documentation for initial component level testing. This leads to heightened collaboration between stakeholders. With model-based testing, stakeholders are given the power to easily execute and comment on a system’s architecture at various stages, but also on the technical aspects of components. Isolation and integration can then be explored more freely with bulky end-to-end tests. This leads to a massive gain in time, quality and DevOps speed, and in turn, experimentation and feedback become standard and shared practice between test teams and stakeholders. Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 3: Bad Data in Software Delivery!
play

05/18/23 • 31 min

Bad data but also production data. Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan move the conversation on from GDPR compliance to bad data in software delivery. Together they explore the concept of the data gambler and sceptic, and the tension of using commercially live data in software delivery. Asking, is data more than a side gig for organisations? And ultimately, why it’s all about data, and why without test data there is no testing? Can we change the narrative? Implement Design through Data Security to shore up predictability and repetition, which can reduce disorder in a system and set the bedrock for dynamic automation. And then what actually defines synthetic data? Responding to this, we touch on using API over unit testing and the role of a data generation AI to move away from the buzzy gold copy database. What can you do? Design to do critical changes only once, then disguard them, reducing the amount of logic gates with each test, so reducing test bloat. Just spin up just the right amount of Dynamic Automation, ensuring to be critical around test cases, starting with manual, then go towards negative testing, for instance coping with nulls. Finally, realising the cost to the business? To what extent is the delivery team that works like a feature factory aligned or detached with the audit team verifying by checklist? Maybe start weighing in on this as a compliance versus conduct risk situation in the organisation. The need then is to align the synergies between what’s being asked about the customer profile and how the profile of the customer is actually understood. Ultimately you’ll be upping the bar on both functional (one-to-one testing of cases and data) and performance (what would, or even should production do) testing. GDPR guidance is there to be interpretted by the individual organisation, which is missing right now, and so at the molent is this just a type of control theatre mitigating a real lack of understanding of the unknowns in a systyem under test? The Curiosity Software Podcast featuring Huw Price and Rich Jordan! Together, they share their insight and expertise in driving software design and development in test. Learn how you can improve your journey to quality software delivery, by considering how much do you really understand about your systems, and when things inevitably go wrong, why didn’t you test that? Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 2: What GDPR Means For Software Delivery
play

04/26/23 • 35 min

GDPR (general data protection regulation) and what it means for software testing and delivery. Guest Tom Pryce, Communications Manager, Curiosity Software, brings his knowledge to ep2 of Inside The Outer Loop, what GDPR Means For Software Delivery. We’re exploring plenty of ideas including: was the grace period of 2 years prior to GDPR legislation a call to arms for organisations to shore up clarity in their IT estates? Who are the gamblers and sceptics? What have been the implications for data provisioning regarding data minimisation and process limitation, particularly for software testing and delivery? From this to also considering what if you reduced the attack level through using synthetic data in the lower environments? What’s the difference between the data subject and the data processor related on premise? Also, how does this all impacts having access to PII protected characteristics in data provisioned to non-production environments. And finally where should you be paring back on the use of live data to know the flows between systems for assisting in migration You’ll also hear about how the fine caused by a cloud migration that the Norwegian DPA (data protection authority) said could have been avoided being levied by way of using synthetic data and less production data. Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 1: Organisational Behavioural Change In Test
play

03/29/23 • 38 min

Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 14: AI-Powered Testing Practices with Alex Martins
play

03/06/24 • 55 min

Welcome to episode 14 of Inside The Outer Loop! In this episode, the Curiosity Software team, Rich Jordan and Ben Johnson-Ward, are joined by Alex Martins, VP of Strategy at Katalon, to discuss the implications and challenges of AI-Powered Testing. This episode goes beyond the hype and marketing euphoria of AI, to weigh up productivity gains coming from GPT-4 and large language models (LLM) in the software quality space. Guest Alex Martins leads the conversation around the need to put the tester at the centre of AI-powered testing, and only then, start building out AI use cases and safeguards. Where the development community has seen tangible gains in AI deployment, the uplift in AI-powered testing practices is just beginning. So, how will this impact software testing professionals? Also, how will SME knowledge evolve as organizations develop bespoke LLMs? Ben Johnson-Ward argues, if artificial intelligence is used to create test outputs, then testers will have to evaluate the output of these tests to determine if they are correct. This approach may lead to a decrease in productivity as testers spend time testing the output of AI generated tests. Testers will be able to fine-tune their AI models and build out a broader toolkit. But what does this look like? While organizations are adopting AI in testing, there will also be impact on the metrics of repeatability, explainability, and auditability. With this in mind, internal AI committees can establish rules to abate uncertainty. Rich Jordan follows up on Ben's point, explaining how from the human perspective, AI may be limited in determining if an application meets the needs of the users. In this use case, AI becomes the co-pilot, a new tool for experts to enhance collaboration, while testers remain primary-pilots. Repeatability is discussed as a characteristic that humans are comfortable with in testing, but can AI offer better alternatives to traditional methods of monitoring code changes and integration flows? AI-powered practices in software testing and test coverage are still in their early stages. This requires ongoing collaboration, learning, and sharing of experiences among organizations and industry professionals. Finally, the possibilities and potential benefits of AI are too significant to ignore, despite the discomfort and challenges it brings in delivering quality software, faster. Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Inside The Outer Loop - Episode 15: The Future of AI Co-Pilots with Mark Winteringham
play

03/19/24 • 43 min

Welcome to episode 15 of Inside The Outer Loop! In this episode, Curiosity Software's Rich Jordan and James Walker, are joined by Mark Winteringham, author of AI-Assisted Testing. Together they reflect on their experience with AI, the effect it has had on software quality and testing, and the future of AI Co-Pilots. LLMs, namely ChatGPT, Gemini and Llama are cool, but what do they offer in terms of delivering software quality? What leaps have you taken in using generative AI technology? How will you future-proof your AI-Assisted testing efforts? By now you really should be considering these questions at a strategic organisational level. Guest Mark Winteringham unravels a collage of challenges as he reflects on his new book "AI Assisted Testing” with our hosts. Providing a balanced perspective in understanding the progress, plateaus, and benefits of using artificial intelligence and co-pilots for delivering quality software. James follows up by exploring the value of AI Co-Pilots in testing and the importance of context in prompt engineering, emphasising the need for experimentation to determine what actually makes a good prompt. Seen with a healthy scepticism, prompts can be used as aids to extend quality testing abilities. But to yield better results, rather than prompting AI with a broad question, the advice is to target specific parts of the system or problem. But what does implementing AI technology in to your SDLC actually mean, and how does it work? The possibilities seem endless, and large language model’s keep growing, but has there been an impact, is true transformational change still a while away? Use Curiosity's code at checkout for a discount on Mark Winteringham's book, AI-Assisted Testing! Get the Book Here: https://bit.ly/ai-testing Use this code: podcuriosity24 Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Is virtualisation given its rightful place in test design? Deployed in a loosely coupled system, speed and flow increase, whilst reducing technical debt. Team alignment and version handling is improved, setting the terrain for better software delivery. Welcome to this episode of Inside The Outer Loop. Moving from expertise in original service virtualisation to sandboxing, guest John Power, CEO of Ostia Solutions, with Curiosity Software's Huw Price and Rich Jordan shares insight that a proper sandbox is fully simulated, gives a good customer experience to developers and testers, that a sandbox being standalone and generating synthetic data, it isn’t compromised. Initially offering a proxy, using request-response algorithms for recording and replaying without Mainframes in play, Ostia went to providing full simulation by example of the UK's Open Banking Model. This involved moving the technology from simply record and replay of data to actual data generation. The hosts share experiences on leading a virtualisation team but also how best to implement Master Data Management using sandboxes in model-based testing to avoid accidental complexity in the system under test. In adopting such an approach, the starting point really is to understand the current confidence level in the interface you’re asking service virtualisation to replace. In practice, simulating what currently exists a system, through the framework bringing in functional endpoints and business rules, it informs the required APIs to the benefit of time, security and quality. But the challenge is for organisations to value sandboxes in adjusting the system design rather than as a regulatory or end-of-year afterthought. Beyond creating reusable assets, you’ll ensure continuous updates to sandbox data and testing models. The approach also gives oversight to which contracts and test environments are affected, alongside sandboxes. Though this requires moving away from a centralised management of APIs. In working towards a better architectural design of a system, where dependencies are isolated, we can learn from Conway’s Law. It suggests a system mimics the organisation's communication, so it's best to improve communication across teams first. Sandboxing will then thrive at an organisational level. You’ll be reducing technical debt, risk, extra effort and in parallel developing mature teams to enable flow, feedback and experimentation in the system under test. Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!
bookmark
plus icon
share episode

Show more best episodes

Toggle view more icon

FAQ

How many episodes does Inside The Outer Loop have?

Inside The Outer Loop currently has 34 episodes available.

What topics does Inside The Outer Loop cover?

The podcast is about Devops, Software, Podcasts and Technology.

What is the most popular episode on Inside The Outer Loop?

The episode title 'Episode 12: The Legacy System Conundrum with Nalin Parbhu' is the most popular.

What is the average episode length on Inside The Outer Loop?

The average episode length on Inside The Outer Loop is 41 minutes.

How often are episodes of Inside The Outer Loop released?

Episodes of Inside The Outer Loop are typically released every 14 days, 17 hours.

When was the first episode of Inside The Outer Loop?

The first episode of Inside The Outer Loop was released on Mar 29, 2023.

Show more FAQ

Toggle view more icon

Comments