166: Constantine Yurevich: Visit Scoring, an alternative to MMM and MTA few marketers know about

04/22/25 • 68 min

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Constantine Yurevich, CEO and Co-Founder at SegmentStream.

Summary: Multi-touch attribution is a beautifully crafted illusion we all pretend to believe in while knowing deep down it's flawed. The work is mysterious, but is it important? The big ad platforms sell us sophisticated solutions they don't even trust for their own internal decisions. Is it time we accept marketing causation is a thing we can’t measure? Visitor behavior scoring is a really interesting alternative or extra ingredient to consider. Often thought of as a tool for lead management to help prioritize your SDR’s time, the team at SegmentStream started using the same scoring methodology, but with an attribution application. Enter synthetic conversions. Instead of just tracking conversions, track meaningful visits like time spent, pages explored, comparisons made. This allows you to connect upper-funnel campaigns to real behavior patterns rather than just looking at who converted in a single session.

About Constantine/SegmentStream

SegmentStream was founded in 2018 in London
Feb 2022 raised a first funding round of 2.7M
SegmentStream is now trusted by more than 100 leading customers across the globe including L’Oreal, KitchenAid, Synthesia, Carshop, InstaHeadShots, and many others

The Messy Truth About B2B vs B2C Attribution Models

Price tags and decision timeframes obliterate the B2B/B2C attribution divide faster than most marketers realize. Constantine shatters conventional wisdom by showing how his team leverages their own attribution tools to measure website engagement because enterprise software purchases rarely follow predictable patterns. "Trusting last click is impossible," he explains, "because it takes too much time before conversion happens."

You've likely noticed this pattern in your own marketing stack. A $2,000 direct-to-consumer exercise bike creates the same multi-touch, 60-day consideration journey as many supposedly "straightforward" B2B software purchases. Meanwhile, those $30/month SaaS tools targeting small businesses convert with the immediacy of consumer products. Constantine points out how this pricing reality creates measurement challenges that transcend business categories:

High-ticket B2C products demand extended 30-60 day consideration windows
SMB-focused B2B subscriptions ($20-30/month) behave like impulse purchases
Enterprise B2B sales cycles stretch beyond a year with critical offline components

The offline measurement void plagues marketers everywhere. Constantine admits many of his most valuable marketing activities resist quantification. "I write a lot of LinkedIn posts, newsletters, we do podcasts. Some of these activities are very hard to measure unless you explicitly ask someone, 'How did you hear about us?'" Your gut tightens reading this because you've felt this same tension between attribution models and marketing reality.

Scale transforms your attribution approach more dramatically than business classification ever could. Small operations handling 100 monthly leads can simply ask each prospect about their discovery journey. Large enterprises processing thousands of conversions require sophisticated multi-touch models regardless of whether they sell to businesses or consumers. Constantine explains this convergence clearly: "When we talk about larger B2B businesses with thousands of leads and purchases, it becomes more similar to B2C with a long sales cycle plus an offline component."

The unmeasurable brand-building activities require a leap of faith that makes data-driven marketers squirm. Constantine embraces this uncertainty with refreshing honesty: "When you post on LinkedIn, build your personal brand, share content—that's really hard to measure and I don't even want to go there." His team focuses on delivering value through content, trusting that results will materialize. "You just share your content and eventually you see how it plays off." This pragmatic acceptance of attribution limitations feels like cool water in the desert of measurement obsession.

Key takeaway: Match your attribution model to purchase complexity rather than business category. Implement multi-touch attribution with lead scoring for high-consideration purchases across both B2B and B2C, while accepting that valuable brand-building work often exists beyond the reach of your measurement tools.

Why Marketing Attribution Still Matters Despite Its Flaws

Attribution chaos continues to haunt marketers drowning in competing methodologies and high-priced solutions. Constantine blasts through the measurement fog with brutal practicality when tackling the Multi-Touch Attribution (MTA) debate. While many have written MTA's obituary due to its diminishing visibility into customer journey...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Constantine Yurevich, CEO and Co-Founder at SegmentStream.

About Constantine/SegmentStream

SegmentStream was founded in 2018 in London
Feb 2022 raised a first funding round of 2.7M
SegmentStream is now trusted by more than 100 leading customers across the globe including L’Oreal, KitchenAid, Synthesia, Carshop, InstaHeadShots, and many others

The Messy Truth About B2B vs B2C Attribution Models

Why Marketing Attribution Still Matters Despite Its Flaws

Previous Episode

165: Ashley Faus: Building content that matches actual human thinking by integrating lifecycle, content and product marketing

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian.

Summary: Marketing frameworks often fail because they ignore how humans actually behave. People don't follow neat, linear paths; they explore, double back, and leap ahead based on genuine interests. Drawing from her diverse experience across corporate communications and lifecycle leadership, Ashley exposes how artificial walls between marketing functions create dysfunction while offering a solution: an integrated ecosystem where audience insights, compelling content, and strategic distribution flow continuously between teams. Her approach identifies truly predictive behaviors and measures success through bold experiments rather than smaller tweaks. By respecting how people naturally learn and make decisions, Ashley's content structure creates pathways that connect conceptual, strategic, and tactical pieces, making your content genuinely valuable to visitors and dramatically more effective at converting those ready to purchase.

About Ashley

Ashely started her career with generalist marketing roles at a bunch of different small companies before settling into a role in the commercial aviation industry
She took on a generalist Marketing role at a training firm where she got a taste of marketing operations including a Marketo integration and lots of email campaigns
She later had 2 content strategy and product marketing roles at network security companies
Today Ashley is Head of Lifecycle Marketing, Portfolio at Atlassian where she’s been for over 7 years
She’s been interviewed on more than 50 podcasts, her writing has been published on TIME, Forbes, MarketingProfs, she’s a well traveled speaker and she has an upcoming book coming out in May called ‘Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI’

Why You Should Look for a New Job Every 18 Months

Ashley has spent over seven years at Atlassian, navigating through four distinct roles while the company itself transformed dramatically around her. This longevity stands out in an industry where most professionals change employers every 2-3 years. Through corporate communications, integrated media, product marketing, and now lifecycle marketing, she's crafted multiple careers without changing her email address.

> "I look for a new job every 18 months, so that I am prepared to make a move and solve for any gaps at that roughly two to two and a half year mark."

"I look for a new job every 18 months," Ashley explains, "so that I am prepared to make a move and solve for any gaps at that roughly two to two and a half year mark." This calculated strategy creates perpetual career momentum. You begin exploring opportunities six months before the typical stagnation point, positioning yourself to evolve professionally right when most people start feeling restless. The genius lies in the timing: plan your next move while you still love your current role, not after burnout or boredom sets in.

The company Ashley joined barely resembles today's Atlassian. "We actually have grown like five or six times, both from an employee standpoint and from a revenue standpoint as well," she notes. This parallel evolution of both person and organization created a unique synergy, allowing her to ride waves of company growth while pursuing her own skill development.

Her initial role came with an unexpected twist. Despite being hired for corporate communications, PR represented one of her weaker skill areas. During interviews, the hiring manager focused more on her versatility across content strategy, email marketing, and social media. Genuine curiosity opened doors that formal applications never could. "Because I was nosy and stuck my nose in other people's business," she admits candidly, "they were like, 'should you come sit with us?'" These informal interactions led to her integrated media role, which connected previously siloed functions:

Press relations
Owned channels like email and social
Thought leadership content
Brand marketing campaigns

Ashley applies this proactive mindset when managing her team. She challenges them with pointed questions about their future: "Who do you want to be when you grow up? Are you growing up in the next year? In the next five years?" This framing transforms vague aspirations into concrete timelines. "That breakdown of how to get to where you want to be in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years starts with the next 12 months or 24 months," she explains.

The social media team placement at Atlassian illustrates how organizations evolve their understanding of marketing channels. "At the time, our social media person sat on the email team because the mindset was that this is a broadcast channel," Ashley recalls. Both she and he...

Next Episode

167: Moni Oloyede: The marketing ops identity paradox, why attribution is a waste of time and why GTM engineering is just sales ops

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Moni Oloyede, Founder at MO Martech.

Summary: Your buyers can't remember why they bought from you, our brains physically can't store that information correctly. But we've built elaborate attribution systems pretending otherwise. Moni helps us understand why we need to stop crediting random touchpoints and start measuring how effectively each content piece performs its specific job in moving people through your funnel. We also cover why not all marketing activities need to drive revenue, why you shouldn’t ditch ideas just because you can’t track them and why GTM engineering is just job title inflation.

About Moni

Moni started her career at Sourcefire, a cybersecurity company where she dabbled in everything from Eloqua, Salesforce and Adwords
She shifted to the agency world and joined a revenue marketing agency and later a growth consultancy
She went back in house in cybersecurity where she would spend the better part of 5 years becoming a Director of Marketing Infrastructure
Today Moni (moo-nee) is the founder of MO Martech where she teaches and runs workshops to help business that struggle with marketing

Most Tech Stacks Are Stitched With Duct Tape

Born in the prehistoric age of marketing automation, Moni witnessed marketing technology evolve from early concept to tablestakes. Her first employer, a cybersecurity company, maintained such intimate ties with Eloqua that they earned a literal place in the vendor's office. "I cut my teeth in the early days of lead scoring and nurturing, like all those concepts were new," she recalls. While most marketers today inherit established systems, Moni helped build the prototype.

Those early days bristled with raw technological potential. Her CMO burst back from a conference, wide-eyed about "this new thing called the Cloud." Marketing teams fumbled through uncharted territory, concocting solutions with no rulebook. Moni found herself repeatedly cast as the test subject for nascent concepts:

Early lead scoring algorithms that barely understood buyer intent
* Rudimentary nurture campaigns that seem prehistoric by today's standards
* Primitive ABM approaches before the category even existed
* First-generation dynamic content that barely qualified as "dynamic"

Her technical immersion might have continued indefinitely, but a pattern emerged across agencies and client engagements. The technology consistently underdelivered on its promise. "We seem to get to a point and then we can't ever get to the promise," she explains. The gap between vendor slideware and actual results remained stubbornly unbridgeable regardless of budget size, team composition, or technical architecture.

This revelation propelled Moni toward the marketing roots beneath the technology. She uncovered the industry's dirty little secret: nobody has their marketing technology working smoothly. Not even close.

> "Everybody always thinks that other people's tech stacks are perfect. You attend webinars and listen to podcasts and think, 'oh my gosh, that brand has it all figured out. Why don't I have it figured out?'"

Pull back the curtain on these supposedly perfect marketing technology implementations and you'll discover chaos. That Fortune 500 company presenting their "integrated customer journey orchestration"? They can't even track basic lead conversion properly. That unicorn startup showcasing their "AI-powered personalization engine"? Most of their segments contain default content. The larger the company, the more chaotic the implementation. "The bigger the company, the more mess it is," Moni confirms. "It's more duct tape and glue and just hobbled together things."

Marketing technology works as an amplifier, not a miracle cure. "Technology is not automagical," Moni states bluntly. "It can only do so much, and if the marketing's bad, the technology is not going to fix that." Her journey from tech specialist to marketing strategist stems directly from this understanding: fix the foundation first.

Key takeaway: Stop comparing your messy marketing stack to the sanitized versions presented at conferences. Even the most sophisticated enterprises run on cobbled-together systems and manual workarounds. Focus first on creating marketing that resonates with real humans, then apply technology selectively to amplify what already works. You'll save yourself the frustration of trying to automate broken processes while building something sustainable that actually delivers results.

The Marketing Ops Identity Paradox

Marketing operations professionals inhabit a peculiar career limbo. You build the systems that power modern marketing, yet find yourself trapped by your own expertise. Moni, a 16-year marketing veteran, captures this frustration perfectly: "For at lea...