
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
Kerry Morrison
The American mental health system is broken beyond repair. Rather than trying to tweak a system which fails everyone, it is time to commit to a bold vision for a better way forward. This podcast explores the American system against the plumb line of an international best practice, recognized by the World Health Organization (WHO), in Trieste, Italy. The 40-year old Trieste model demonstrates how a community-based treatment system upholds the human rights of the people served. The Trieste story is anti-institutional and models the therapeutic value of social connection. Topics will address contemporary challenges in the American failed mental health system as contrasted with the Italian approach toward accoglienza – or radical hospitality – as the underpinning of their remarkable culture of caring for people. Interviews will touch upon how the guiding principles of the Italian system – social recovery, whole person care, system accountability, and the human right to a purposeful life – are non-negotiable aspects if we are to have any hope of forging a new way forward in our American mental health system. This podcast is curated and hosted by Kerry Morrison, founder and project director of Heart Forward LA (https://www.heartforwardla.org/). Heart Forward is collaborating with Aaron Stern at Verdugo Sound as the technical partner in producing this podcast (https://www.verdugosound.com). Kerry Morrison is also the author of the blog www.accoglienza.us.
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Trailer for Season Five
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
12/16/24 • 8 min
Season Five is a special treat: made in Italy!
This past year, with generous support from the Conrad N. Hilton Foundation, Heart Forward was afforded the opportunity to curate a study group to learn about a system in Trieste, Italy that the World Health Organization (WHO) has declared a global best practice for community-based mental health care.
As the Équipe met regularly via Zoom to prepare for their October 2024 study visit, they fashioned a mission statement define their purpose:
The Équipe is an intentionally curated and diverse learning community that is committed to advancing a more humane and holistic mental healthcare system. Rejecting the institutional status quo, which contributes to suffering, homelessness and incarceration in the US, we look abroad for bright spots that could inform sustainable change.
So about these conversations. During our week in Trieste, I snuck away to do interviews in the city. Who will you meet?
Claudia Battiston. Claudia is a Psychiatric Rehabilitation Technician – which is a role unique to Italy, but seems to complement what we know as occupational therapy.
Dr. Tomasso Bonavigo, interviewed alongside his colleague, Dr. Alessandra Oretti. Bonavigo works in a community mental health center and Dr. Oretti is the director of the psychiatric unit in the central hospital and is as the interim director of the mental health department.
Elena Cerkvenic. She is a service user in Trieste and just published a book this year called Sono Schizofrenica e amo la mia follia.
Dr. Mario Colucci. A psychiatrist and philosopher, who has worked in the community system for most of his career and has written extensively about the Basaglian vision.
Dr. Giovanna Del Guidice. Here’s a female psychiatrist who managed to work alongside Franco Basaglia and now is dedicated to keeping the flame alive as she travels to other countries to provide training.
Stefania Grimaldi. One of the cornerstones of the model in Trieste is the network of social cooperatives. We’ll learn about one such social cooperative, La Collina, and how this system works.
Michele Sipala. Michele, in a peer support role, is involved with a very innovative six-month residential program for young service users in the city’s mental health system, Recovery House.
Beatrice Stanig. She speaks about how the association – L’Una e L’Altra – has provided a place of purpose for her. She is now a peer support specialist and has written a book called, Sei Innocente.
Caterina Vicentini. Caterina is a service user who provides a glimpse into how valuable the services in Trieste have been to her recovery and her ability to continue her career as a teacher.
The episodes will be ready for release mid-January 2025. Subscribe so you will be alerted when the first episode is available.
This is a non-sponsored podcast with no ads and entirely supported through donors. To support this podcast, please consider a donation HERE.
And thank you to my technical producer, Aaron Stern of Verdugo Sound for editing and production support.

Lessons learned from the mid-90's Village Integrated Services Pilot and why they're even more relevant today: A history lesson with Dr. Mark Ragins and Dr. Dave Pilon
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
05/14/22 • 82 min
This interview will regale the history of a mental health pilot from the early 90’s that remains as relevant today as the day it was started. Back in the day, the Wright-Bronzan-McCorquodale Act of 1988 (known as AB 3777) funded – from the state’s general fund -- three Integrated Service Agency programs for mentally ill consumers. The most well-known of these was MHA’s The Village in Long Beach (Mental Health America) which became a model for the Mental Health Services Act (Prop 63) which would follow about ten years later.
This pilot featured two study groups. The Village coordinated and supported the 24/7 whole-person life needs of 120 consumers, randomly picked by the independent evaluator. The budget was based upon a per-capita allocation of $15,000 per person per year, paid quarterly in advance. Within this budget, Village staff (think “community integration managers” as opposed to case managers) had to cover all costs associated with inpatient care, outpatient care, vocational support, community engagement, whatever was required. By contrast, the control group was serviced through the usual and customary public mental health system; a clinical model.
Ragins and Pilon will talk about the remarkable staff culture that evolved and the stunning outcomes associated with the pilot. Higher levels of employment, lower levels of hospitalization and the like. The evaluation report is summarized here.
True payment reform is required if the public mental health system is going to make a difference in the lives of the people it services. Recovery is possible, but people need to be supported in all aspects of their life, not just with medication and clinical interventions.
The Guests:
Dave Pilon received his doctorate in Social Psychology from Harvard University in 1981. From 1989 until his retirement, he served in various roles at Mental Health America of Los Angeles (MHALA), including as its CEO from 2009 until 2017. For over 35 years he has consulted in the design and transformation of mental health programs and systems throughout the United States, New Zealand and Japan. Most recently he has served as the lead consultant to the L.A. County Department of Mental Health for the TRIESTE Pilot.
He is passionate about creating better ways to serve the most vulnerable among us, particularly people with serious mental illnesses.
Mark Ragins calls himself a recovery-based psychiatrist. He worked for 27 years as the medical director at the MHALA Village in Long Beach. Most recently, he’s been serving on campus as the only psychiatrist at CSU Long Beach
Dr. Ragins website features a number of resources and writings from the recovery mindset about which he is so passionate. He has recently published a new book, Journeys Beyond the Frontier: A Rebellious Guide to Psychosis and Other Extraordinary Experiences.

Italian psychiatrist Franco Basaglia: his life, his impact, his legacy. A conversation with Professor John Foot.
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
04/18/22 • 50 min
John Foot is a professor of Modern Italian History at the University of Bristol in the U.K. He is an expert on the life of Dr. Franco Basaglia, the visionary psychiatrist whose lasting impact on the Italian mental health system continues to inspire the world.
We will explore Professor Foot’s journey into this avocation, which was sparked by the chance viewing the film San Clemente (1982) while on a trip to Trieste.
Professor Foot is author of Franco Basaglia: the Man who Closed the Asylums. He is a co-editor of compendium of essays about the impact of Trieste in other counties that emanated from a symposium held in Oxford in 2018. It is titled Basaglia’s International Legacy: From Asylum to Community.
We also explore in this interview the plan to translate into English a book that was originally published in 1968, L’istituzione negata (The Negated Institution), which had seminal impact on advancing the Basaglian revolutionary school of thought in Europe and South America.
That one man could have such profound impact on advancing a human-centered, community-based system of care for people living with mental illness is astounding. This interview will provide some insights into Basaglia, who is relatively unknown in the English-speaking world.
Other resources associated with the interview:
Documentary (1968) I giardini di Abele
Book (1969) Morire di classe
Documentary (2013) Dentro le proprie mura

What is Peer Respite and why don't we have more of these crisis beds available? A conversation with Guyton Colantuono of Project Return Peer Support Network
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
04/06/22 • 65 min
Guyton Colantuono is the executive director of Project Return Peer Support Network, a position he has held since 2014. He has spent more than 25 years working in the field of mental health and has led a multitude of programs including those addressing homeless outreach and shelter, transition-aged youth and employment development.
He has an unwavering belief that “people are people first” and a label is not a destiny. His lived experience as a survivor of homelessness, drug addiction and mental illness has fueled his passion for a whole-person approach throughout his career.
Particular emphasis will be placed on the unique offerings of a Peer Respite Home, to which he applies the metaphor of a “bed and breakfast for someone experiencing a mental health crisis.” He and his team of peers oversee Hacienda of Hope in Long Beach, one of two peer respites in all of Los Angeles County, and one of five in the state of California.
We’ll talk about how peer respites naturally adopt a posture of radical hospitality in welcoming guests, and how this is a stunningly less expensive bed to provide than those associated with psychiatric hospitalization or the county jail. Peer respite is the ultimate in trauma-informed care, and we’ll make a case for increasing the availability of these beds as a resource for providing care for people living with a mental illness not only in Los Angeles County, but throughout the state.
Resources
'Peer respite' homes aim to be alternative to psychiatric wards - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

Healing: Our Path from Mental Illness to Mental Health. A conversation with the author, Dr. Tom Insel
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
03/28/22 • 63 min
Dr. Tom Insel is a psychiatrist, a neuroscientist and an influential voice in the national conversation that is gaining momentum around the failures of the American mental health system and the need to do better for the humans that are suffering as a result. His new book, released in February 2022, is a worthy read, Healing: Our Path from Mental Illness to Mental Health.
In this episode we talk about how his life journey informs his current work and advocacy as he enters this chapter in his life. He speaks with a certain humility about how assumptions he made early in his career, or even while head of the National Institute for Mental Health, have changed as he has spent time with families and people with lived experience. His eyes were further opened to the challenges in our communities as he toured the state on a listening tour in behalf of California’s new governor, Gavin Newsom.
He speaks with eloquence about the profoundly simple idea (yet hard to implement or fund in our current system) to focus on People, Place and Purpose to support an individual’s recovery from their mental illness.
Dr. Insel joined our delegation in September 2019 when we attended the international mental health conference in Trieste Italy and he shares some memories from that experience.
Additional links and resources:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/american-mental-health-crisis-healing/622052/
Additional articles from his website:
Press — Thomas Insel, MD (thomasinselmd.com)
Finally, Dr. Insel is part of a team that has created a new information source MindSite News.
From their Mission Statement:
MindSite News is a new nonprofit, nonpartisan digital journalism organization dedicated to reporting on mental health in America, exposing rampant policy failures and spotlighting efforts to solve them. We seek to create and sustain a sense of national urgency about the workings and failings of the U.S. mental health system and to impact that system through our reporting, making it more equitable, effective, transparent and humane in its care for individuals and families struggling with mental illness.

Understanding California's 50-year old conservatorship law: is there room for improvement? An interview with gifted law student Savanah Walseth.
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
03/20/22 • 57 min
Savanah Walseth is a student at Loyola Law School and was most recently a program manager for the L.A. County Department of Health “Housing for Health” Program. At a young age, she is guided by both lessons learned “in the trenches” given her experience in homeless outreach and engagement for People Assisting the Homeless (PATH), but also in programmatic work managing the COVID response in L.A. County. During the past two years, she was managing the county’s response involving testing, street medicine, outbreak management and contact tracing among the homeless population. Savanah is a graduate of Reed College in Portland.
The topic of this podcast interview is drawn from a paper written by Savanah for a Mental Disability Law Seminar in late 2021. The paper is entitled: Grave Disability: Seeking Restructure through New Definitions.
This interview will provide a basic primer on the California law that governs involuntary hospitalization, the definition of grave disability and conservatorships, the Lanterman Petris Short Act, passed in 1967. We will touch upon the fact that this type of conservatorship differs from the widely publicized conservatorship that Britney Spears was subjected to for nearly 14 years. That is called a probate conservatorship. This 2021 article from CalMatters does a good job distinguishing between the two types of conservatorships.
Savanah’s goal in her law career is to be a civil rights litigator – focusing upon housing and disability rights, especially in the intersections of homelessness and mental health.

Unglamourous expertise: Recovery from acute psychosis to reflections on system change. A conversation with Lee Davis, Alameda County Mental Health Advisory Board
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
03/12/22 • 53 min
Lee Davis is currently the chair of the Alameda County Mental Health Advisory Board. In her official bio, she indicates that she is a Civil Engineer and Journeyman Electrician by profession. She comes to her work on the Advisory Board as a woman with lived experience of a mood disorder.
In this interview, we explore three themes about which Lee is passionate:
1. The case for involuntary treatment
2. The lack of capacity in our so-called continuum of care
3. Her assertion that the failure to invest in the requisite infrastructure to treat people and promote their recovery is morally wrong and socially debilitating
In addition, we explore Lee’s extraordinary life journey, about which she writes with remarkable vulnerability in her blogs.
Being Bipolar. Maybe it is my unisex name. Maybe it is... | by Lee Andrea Davis | Medium
Other organizations she references in this interview:
Alameda County Families Advocating for the Seriously Mentally Ill
Articles about the February 2022 sleep-in organized by FASMI with which Lee was involved.
Oakland: Protesters sleep on sidewalk, demand mental health care (mercurynews.com)
Link to the annual report for the Alameda County Mental Health Advisory Board

Season Three Trailer
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
02/19/22 • 3 min
I am grateful for good advice I received when I started this podcast in the summer of 2020: break your podcast into seasons. For a small operation like Heart Forward, this allows for breathing room and the opportunity to plan and curate guests that are worth listening to!
So, we’ve taken a six-month break since our last episode was uploaded in August 2021. We are ready to launch a 10-episode season on March 14, 2022.
This season, I am grateful to have identified a studio in Glassell Park in Los Angeles where I can record my interviews in person. Words cannot express my appreciation for Peer Mental Health who, for the first two seasons, came alongside me with technical advice and a digital editor, Paul Robinson, who was instrumental in bringing 19 episodes to the Buzzsprout platform.
For Season Three, my home is Verdugo Sound in Glassell Park, and I am grateful to have the support of Aaron Stern as my audio engineer and editor.
The theme remains the same: The American mental health system is broken. Our guests are invited to help us understand the practical impact of this failed system or offer ideas for change. We continue to be inspired by the global best practice in Trieste Italy. We do not give up hope.
Please come on back on March 14, 2022!
To support this podcast:
Heart Forward LA - Main Giving Page (networkforgood.com)
Grateful for listeners and supporters!

Is there anything more complicated than our public mental health funding system? Making sense with Alex Briscoe
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
08/31/21 • 66 min
This episode tackles the gnarly tangle known as our public mental health funding system. So many questions I had. Why is there a chronic shortage of mental health treatment beds at every step of the continuum? Why do people get released too early from the hospital when they would benefit from long-term care? Why are mental health clinics limited in the services they can provide to their clients? Why are there no measurable outcomes applied to how funds are invested?
I curated ten observations about the system from my vantage point as a concerned layperson and asked Alex Briscoe to respond. He does a masterful job of providing clarification to either refute, affirm or amplify upon these observations.
Alex brings 13 years of experience working at the Health Agency in Alameda County, seven years as director; a $700M agency with over 6,000 staff members. He helps reduce to layman’s terms a complicated system that is tied to very stringent requirements associated with federal Medicaid policy (known as Medi-Cal in California) and compounded by the complications associated with the two different state actions to disburse state funds to localities (referred to as “realignment” in 1991 and 2011). Added to this mix are funds authorized by voter passage of Prop 63 in 2004, otherwise known as the “millionaire’s tax” which funds the Mental Health Services Act.
Alex Briscoe’s current role is that of Principal at the California Children’s Trust and that is where you can reach him. Here is a glimpse into their history and impact.
Articles about Alex, his origin story and his accomplishments in this space
Community health: taking smart steps (sfgate.com)
Behind California’s Troubled Mental Health Care Funding System (imprintnews.org)
General reference sources pointing to public mental health finance
A Complex Case: Public Mental Health Delivery and Financing in California (chcf.org)
CalAIM: Behavioral Health Proposals (chcf.org)
MH-MAA-Implementation-Plan-Revised-7.1.21 (ca.gov)
This interview brings to a close Season Two. This podcast is entirely supported by listeners and supporters of Heart Forward LA, which allows us to maintain an independent voice. Please consider a contribution of any amount to help underwrite Season Three, planned for its launch in January 2022.

Building trust takes time: A conversation with Claudia Battiston, Psychiatric Rehabilitation Technician in Trieste
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart
04/11/25 • 53 min
In this episode, we speak with Claudia Battison, a Psychiatric Rehabilitation Technician (PRT) in the mental health system in Trieste Italy. I am joined in this interview by Dr. Joy Agner, Assistant Professor at the USC Chan School of Occupational Therapy and Occupational Science at USC.
Heart Forward has become particularly interested in the potential role that occupational therapists -- if empowered to practice their profession to its full potential -- could play in mental health support settings in the U.S. Unfortunately, the way that OT services are primarily funded (through short-term, medically oriented reimbursement systems) constrain their ability to come alongside people in their recovery journey over the long term.
This topic was already approached in a Season Four podcast with Dr. Deborah Pitts from USC’s Chan School.
In this conversation, we learn about the ways in which the PRT engages with the system users. Three stark differences emerge:
- Time. There are no deadlines. They are afforded the time necessary to get to know the user and tease out the life plans/goals (also referred to as a personal rehabilitation project) that are meaningful to the user.
- Friendship. The relationship is described more like a friendship than what might be more typical in an American context. This equates with the ethos of coming alongside people in horizontal relationships that eschew the power dynamics associated with “professional” more verticalized relationships.
- Team. The PRT is part of a broader team – an équipe of other “operators” (their word for staff) – in the Community Mental Health Center. The other team members can help to weigh in on how to support the system user; the PRT is not left to his or her own devices.
And, or course, all of this is grounded in the belief that a mental health system must support a person in all three pillars of one’s life: casa, lavoro e socializazzione, or housing, work/purpose and community. The PRT must pay attention to each of these pillars to provide support for recovery.
As we have researched this further, it appears that this role if fairly unique to Italy and was created to augment the psycho-social support that is an underpinning to the Italian model. As described in one of the articles linked below, “Psychiatric rehabilitation technicians are trained to perform multidisciplinary rehabilitation and education interventions for people and their carers.”
Here are two articles about the role of the Psychiatric Research Technician.
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FAQ
How many episodes does Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart have?
Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart currently has 49 episodes available.
What topics does Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart cover?
The podcast is about Health & Fitness, Mental Health, Podcasts and Mental Illness.
What is the most popular episode on Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart?
The episode title 'Does the American mental health system stand the test of a human rights framework? A Conversation with Dr. Soumitra Pathare' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart?
The average episode length on Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart is 53 minutes.
How often are episodes of Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart released?
Episodes of Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart are typically released every 13 days, 1 hour.
When was the first episode of Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart?
The first episode of Heart Forward Conversations from the Heart was released on Sep 25, 2020.
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