What is a framework?

08/01/24 • 62 min

Sam and Ryan talk about what sorts of capabilities a tool should have to be considered a web framework. They discuss how frameworks tackle the complexity of getting different systems to communicate with each other, how good frameworks embrace the strengths and patterns of the language they're written in, and why frameworks and services are not in opposition to each other.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro
3:58 - Adapter pattern and cohesive boundaries
9:43 - Rails is Omakase
13:47 - Configurable, but still cohesive
17:04 - Frontend frameworks try to “work with everything”
21:42 - Does composition mean a React framework will look different than Rails?
29:29 - Why taste still matters
34:20 - A framework is a shell of adapters and a brain that coordinates them
35:16 - When using services, complexity still exists in the in-between
37:59 - A fullstack dev is someone who acknowledges and understands how all the parts come together
44:06 - Tweets about the hard problems that Laravel tackles, and the deep design it took to get there
49:15 - Frameworks should embrace the strengths and patterns of their language and ecosystem
50:35 - Why RSCs and Server Actions mean the “Rails for JS” may end up looking nothing like Rails
52:11 - Why users of a “fullstack framework” shouldn’t even care about where the code is running
55:31 - Why libraries or services that are easy to install and set up are not a replacement for frameworks

Links:

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro
3:58 - Adapter pattern and cohesive boundaries
9:43 - Rails is Omakase
13:47 - Configurable, but still cohesive
17:04 - Frontend frameworks try to “work with everything”
21:42 - Does composition mean a React framework will look different than Rails?
29:29 - Why taste still matters
34:20 - A framework is a shell of adapters and a brain that coordinates them
35:16 - When using services, complexity still exists in the in-between
37:59 - A fullstack dev is someone who acknowledges and understands how all the parts come together
44:06 - Tweets about the hard problems that Laravel tackles, and the deep design it took to get there
49:15 - Frameworks should embrace the strengths and patterns of their language and ecosystem
50:35 - Why RSCs and Server Actions mean the “Rails for JS” may end up looking nothing like Rails
52:11 - Why users of a “fullstack framework” shouldn’t even care about where the code is running
55:31 - Why libraries or services that are easy to install and set up are not a replacement for frameworks

Links:

Previous Episode

Crossover: Declaring War Against the Frontend

Sam joins Lane Wagner in a crossover episode with the Backend Banter podcast. They talk about abstractions in frontend and backend frameworks, what JavaScript is doing differently from other languages and frameworks, why the frontend should drive the backend even if you're building in a server-side framework, and what's so special about React Server Components.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro
2:12 - When abstractions leak
6:37 - Recap of Sam's BigSky talk
10:51 - What is JavaScript doing differently?
19:10 - Why frontend frameworks should have more backend features
24:04 - Strong opinions on a library level
30:29 - Shipping more standardized interfaces
37:06 - The frontend should be driving everything in the backend
39:12 - Your types should flow from the database to the frontend, but not your product decisions
46:53 - React Server Components

Link:

Backend Banter

Next Episode

Unstyled React components

Sam and Ryan talk about the pattern of building unstyled components with React. They discuss why unstyled components were created, how they improve upon composition patterns from UI libraries like Bootstrap, how they can be used to share behavior and logic without prescribing any styling opinions, and how they fit into a larger collection of React patterns that can be used to build more powerful components that avoid premature abstractions.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro
1:36 - What are unstyled components?
2:24 - How do unstyled components improve upon earlier patterns?
6:44 - Why would you want to use an unstyled component?
9:58 - How can you compose an unstyled component with a styled component?
16:41 - How to decide which pattern is best suited for the code you want to share
19:36 - Using patterns that preserve React's locality of behavior
24:49 - How do you know if an abstraction is good?
32:54 - Build UI's upcoming course on Advanced React Component Patterns

Links: