Not Your Scream Queen #1: Jennifer's Body

10/14/20 • 56 min

Fantasy+Girls Podcast

Right from the get-go, Em and EJ agree there’s an important topic that, coming out of the My Favorite Apocalypse series, we have not touched on enough: Cannibalism. It only comes up a few times every episode, we promise to do better.
Which brings us to JENNIFER’S BODY, our first pick for the miniseries.
But put a pin in that, Em has some ideas: Since we’ve decided to focus this new miniseries on women of horror--writers, directors, actors, and more--she suggests calling it Not Your Scream Queen. That or Spooky Girls.
EJ is ready to roll but has no clue what movies these are--because they’re not. They’re title ideas for the series. Hello.
Not Your Scream Queen hits instant icon status.
The full series will feature a close-up assessment of five different horror films. They don’t necessarily have feminist themes, but they’re all told by women to varying degrees. Which is perhaps somewhat feminist in itself?
Horror tropes have become so misogynistic within pop culture (not by genre!) that anything that deviates from that misogyny feels like it is inherently making a statement.
Em notes that growing up, if there was a girl in a horror film, by the end she was sure to be covered in blood and half naked. And those films aren’t always trash, but when that’s all that ever happens, come on.
EJ adds that if you’re not even playing with your tropes, and merely rehashing, where’s even the fun in that?
In this series, Em and EJ are here to examine this issue and have some good spooky fun.
The films chosen for this series are female-written, directed, led, produced, or touch on “female” themes (or at least themes broadly considered female). We aimed for two of three of these for all films included.
And, most of them, we’re going in blind--including our first pick for today’s episode, Jennifer’s Body, starring Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried.
Em remembers in the early 2000s when Megan Fox spoke out about her mistreatment during filming and auditioning for TRANSFORMERS by Michael Bay, and how she got blown off for it. She had to wash his car in a bikini for the audition. So cringey.
Now with #MeToo and the evolution of the conversation of women’s equal treatment, this would never be acceptable, but then, no one wanted to hear it.
We all owe Megan Fox an apology.
And, we like to believe, we’ve come a long way since this film released in 2007--not so very long ago!
So let’s start with a synopsis: we snagged ours from Wikipedia.
First of all, this film had an incredible cast! Not just Fox and Seyfried, but also with appearances from a pre-fame Chris Pratt, JK Simmons (and out of typecasting to boot), Amy Sedaris, everywhere you turn there was a big name. Even most of the guys who play Jennifer’s victims were very familiar looking.
Not to mention, writers and director Diablo Cody--indie queen of JUNO, YOUNG ADULT, TULLY ... a brilliant lady.
And of course, the film has earned a cult following since its original flop release.
For Em, there were a few reactions, and one was a hard cringe at the accuracy of this film’s reflection of being a teen in the 2000s -- the hair, the styles, the slang.... save us from our former selves.
The other big takeaway: In what universe is Amanda Seyfriend the “plain” best friend?
They at least tried with the classic 90s trick of giving the gorgeous actor glasses to make them a nerd.
Em observes the film starts with Seyfriend’s character, Needy, in jail after the events of the movie--she’s a kicker. Okay. But that line never circled back to any bigger meaning.
Was it because she’d always been the sidekick? She offed the person she was sidekick too?
And let’s not forget The Kiss. A kiss between Jennifer and Needy was prominently featured in the film’s trailers, and it was a clear effort to pander to the teen guy horror cliche crowd.
But in the context of the film, and per Cody’s commentary, Needy was written to be a little in love with Jennifer from the start. Maybe romantically, but also could be taken to be that complicated way teen girls relate to each other--there’s always that one girl everyone seems to adore, or perhaps want to trade places with.
There was an obsession between Needy and Jennifer, and a codependency that was very complicated and twisted.
It says a lot about female friendship, about high school dynamics, about developing our own identities.
Em suggests the film is a portrait of a toxic friendship.
Even though Needy was second fiddle, but still Jennifer won’t do anything without Needy. There clear rules to their dynamic, including what to wear and how to look, to ensure those dynamics stay in place.
EJ calls out that we’ve all been t...

Right from the get-go, Em and EJ agree there’s an important topic that, coming out of the My Favorite Apocalypse series, we have not touched on enough: Cannibalism. It only comes up a few times every episode, we promise to do better.
Which brings us to JENNIFER’S BODY, our first pick for the miniseries.
But put a pin in that, Em has some ideas: Since we’ve decided to focus this new miniseries on women of horror--writers, directors, actors, and more--she suggests calling it Not Your Scream Queen. That or Spooky Girls.
EJ is ready to roll but has no clue what movies these are--because they’re not. They’re title ideas for the series. Hello.
Not Your Scream Queen hits instant icon status.
The full series will feature a close-up assessment of five different horror films. They don’t necessarily have feminist themes, but they’re all told by women to varying degrees. Which is perhaps somewhat feminist in itself?
Horror tropes have become so misogynistic within pop culture (not by genre!) that anything that deviates from that misogyny feels like it is inherently making a statement.
Em notes that growing up, if there was a girl in a horror film, by the end she was sure to be covered in blood and half naked. And those films aren’t always trash, but when that’s all that ever happens, come on.
EJ adds that if you’re not even playing with your tropes, and merely rehashing, where’s even the fun in that?
In this series, Em and EJ are here to examine this issue and have some good spooky fun.
The films chosen for this series are female-written, directed, led, produced, or touch on “female” themes (or at least themes broadly considered female). We aimed for two of three of these for all films included.
And, most of them, we’re going in blind--including our first pick for today’s episode, Jennifer’s Body, starring Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried.
Em remembers in the early 2000s when Megan Fox spoke out about her mistreatment during filming and auditioning for TRANSFORMERS by Michael Bay, and how she got blown off for it. She had to wash his car in a bikini for the audition. So cringey.
Now with #MeToo and the evolution of the conversation of women’s equal treatment, this would never be acceptable, but then, no one wanted to hear it.
We all owe Megan Fox an apology.
And, we like to believe, we’ve come a long way since this film released in 2007--not so very long ago!
So let’s start with a synopsis: we snagged ours from Wikipedia.
First of all, this film had an incredible cast! Not just Fox and Seyfried, but also with appearances from a pre-fame Chris Pratt, JK Simmons (and out of typecasting to boot), Amy Sedaris, everywhere you turn there was a big name. Even most of the guys who play Jennifer’s victims were very familiar looking.
Not to mention, writers and director Diablo Cody--indie queen of JUNO, YOUNG ADULT, TULLY ... a brilliant lady.
And of course, the film has earned a cult following since its original flop release.
For Em, there were a few reactions, and one was a hard cringe at the accuracy of this film’s reflection of being a teen in the 2000s -- the hair, the styles, the slang.... save us from our former selves.
The other big takeaway: In what universe is Amanda Seyfriend the “plain” best friend?
They at least tried with the classic 90s trick of giving the gorgeous actor glasses to make them a nerd.
Em observes the film starts with Seyfriend’s character, Needy, in jail after the events of the movie--she’s a kicker. Okay. But that line never circled back to any bigger meaning.
Was it because she’d always been the sidekick? She offed the person she was sidekick too?
And let’s not forget The Kiss. A kiss between Jennifer and Needy was prominently featured in the film’s trailers, and it was a clear effort to pander to the teen guy horror cliche crowd.
But in the context of the film, and per Cody’s commentary, Needy was written to be a little in love with Jennifer from the start. Maybe romantically, but also could be taken to be that complicated way teen girls relate to each other--there’s always that one girl everyone seems to adore, or perhaps want to trade places with.
There was an obsession between Needy and Jennifer, and a codependency that was very complicated and twisted.
It says a lot about female friendship, about high school dynamics, about developing our own identities.
Em suggests the film is a portrait of a toxic friendship.
Even though Needy was second fiddle, but still Jennifer won’t do anything without Needy. There clear rules to their dynamic, including what to wear and how to look, to ensure those dynamics stay in place.
EJ calls out that we’ve all been t...

Previous Episode

My Favorite Apocalypse #4: The Apocalypse Goes Goth

FANTASY+GIRLS

My Favorite Apocalypse Ep 4: The Apocalypse Goes Goth
- EJ and Em have been gone...for a while. It is now July—months away from when they began the series in April
- EJ and Em talk about how things have changed since the miniseries began.
- EJ and Em discuss the Black Lives Matter movement, how it is necessary, and how it is changing publishing. The hosts discuss easy ways that you can support Black authors and creators.
- Em and EJ discuss the twitter hashtag #publishingpaidme on twitter and how it revealed the pay gap between white authors and everyone else, especially Black authors in the same genres.
- Em says it is imperative that the SFF genre embrace diversity so that we can experience weird and wonderful stories. EJ explains how this benefits readers and consumers—how everyone benefits when there are more seats at the table filled by diverse authors.
- Em gives credit to the creator of the #publishingpaidme twitter hashtag, author L.L. McKinney. EJ loves all things Alice in Wonderland, and the hosts chat about how good L.L. McKinney’s a new series based on the classic novel, A BLADE SO BLACK, looks.
- EJ asks readers to check out #OwnVoices books and explains exactly what that means and why that is important.
- EJ suggests listeners check out BlackAndBookish.com
- EJ suggests DREAD NATION by author Justina Ireland. The historical fantasy/horror is a fresh take on zombies/zombie hunters. The book manages to be a zombie book that also examines the historic time period and slavery, but is also accessible and modern.
- EJ’s second books suggestion is THE POPPY WAR. The hosts take a tangent down Libby lane. They adore Libby—who wouldn’t? It’s amazing. The Libby app will cause you to read faster because it is a race to read the book before the library takes the book back off of your device. EJ has checked out the POPPY WAR three times because Libby keeps taking it.
- Em says she has been making a cognizant decision to read even more diversely. She is about to give her book picks, but takes a very on-brand detour to say she has been working on a darker work of fiction herself, as well as watching darker shows and even reading darker fiction. EJ jumps on board and says her current show is HANNIBAL..
- Em says that since she has been writing such a dark book, she has been trying to read some fluffy, fun reads to keep her mind right. Em explains she is also currently reading five books at one time (ADHD has perks). Her current read is I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE by Kristina Forest.
- EJ just finished THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE. Em suggests taking a Shirley Jackson deep dive.
- Em explains that she knows she is supposed to be talking about the apocalypse, but her current reads have been all over the place. Recently, she has finished CIRCE by Madeline Miller (which is Em’s favorite book of the year so far). Then she read a vampire book. Then a DEXTER book. Then a horror book titled, THE RETURN by Rachel Harrison. Em read MY LOVELY WIFE.
- EJ asks Em if she has heard the buzz about MEXICAN GOTHIC by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. EJ has FOMO. She wants to read it so bad. Em wants all the gothic stories forever and ever.
- Em has a MEXICAN GOTHIC story. Em has been anticipated this book for months and months. She is about to start the audiobook.
- EJ is super excited about the book CATHERINE HOUSE by Elisabeth Thomas.
- Em loves the comps—NEVER LET ME GO is amazing.
- Em is ready to dig into MEM by Bethany C. Morrow.
- WESTWORLD SPOILERS AROUND THE 25 MINUTE MARK.
- Em confesses that she thought she would thrive in the current environment, but now knows she would actually die pretty quickly in a real apocalypse.
- Em’s next book recommendation is FRANKENSTEIN IN BAGHDAD by Ahmed Saadawi.
- EJ says how many people have retreated from the current world into romance novels, however she has fallen into dark, thriller, horror genre novels/shows.
- Em commiserates that she often falls down the dark-fic rabbit hole. Sometimes after a binge, she thinks you need to almost read or watch something light to shake off the morbidity of darker books.
- Full circle to Hannibal. EJ loves it—though it is admittedly gruesome.
- HANNIBAL SPOILERS AROUND THE 28:20 MARK.
- EJ tells a gruesome Hannibal plot point that has Em unable to cope.
- The take another (on-brand) detour to Hannibal.
- Why are our hosts still talking about cannibalism? Who knows?
- Em has watched every WUTHERING HEIGHTS adaptation available to stream. She knows she shouldn’t, but there is something about the toxic/terrible relationship between Heathcliff and Catherine.
- EJ points out that JANE EYRE is in many ways the opposite of Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights is no restraint or boundaries—basically two ...

Next Episode

Not Your Scream Queen #2: He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not

Not Your Scream Queen

Episode 2: HE LOVES ME HE LOVES ME NOT

We are back with our mini series featuring women in horror aptly titled NOT YOUR SCREAM QUEEN..
Your two ADHD diagnosed hosts agree that this is the most focused mini-series they’ve accomplished yet, and they are feeling pretty proud of it. Of course that might be because the “work” involved has been a delight!
Em has loved the research for this series. Watching horror movies? Who wouldn’t love it?
Em doesn’t typically take a deep dive into horror—she takes them at face value. This exercise has made her think about them a little differently.
In college, EJ took a class where she’d actually have a “lab” that was watching a film, and then the class would be dissecting and discussing the movie. Pretty awesome.
The women discuss how there is a literary equivalent in some films and EJ suggest (rightfully) that we have reached a point as a society where we should discuss films and their artistic merit the same way we discuss novels.
Em admits her absolute love of movies. All movies. Artistic and terrible—her early video store days left a huge impression on her.
They jump right into today’s episode: He Loves Me He Loves Me Not.
EJ first watched HE LOVES ME HE LOVES ME NOT during her college days, around the early 2000s.
EJ was wandering the aisles of Block Buster with college friends. They were looking for something to new to watch and had liked Amalie. The friend group recognized the leading actress from Amalie and decided to give this one a shot...they had no idea what they were getting in to.
The geeks give a run-down of the plot of He Loves Me He Loves Me Not.
The movie is split in two parts: HER point of view and HIS point of view. EJ and Em dissect how this works in the film.
Emily is so enthusiastic that she basically interrupts EJ every five minutes (lol). She has no regrets. :P
They discuss Erotomania—a real diagnosable mental illness that inspired this movie. It is a rare diagnosis.
EJ discusses problematic tropes that this movie brings to mind.
EJ compares the film to the show Crazy Ex Girlfriend and how it calls out common, problematic tropes.
The medical student that is in love with Angelique during the entire movie has his own problems. EJ and Em chat about how he thought it was fully okay to steal a human heart for Angelique. What?!?
They discuss why the mental illness aspect of the movie didn’t feel wrong.
What would happen if the movie was gender flipped?
Is this movie a horror flick or a Psychological Thriller? EJ thinks that it is nudged into the horror category because of the human heart and the creepy murals. They agree that the movie definitely walks the line between the two.
The consensus is that you could be COMPLETELY fooled into thinking this is a rom com from the opening scene.
The movie is not without its problems—it is twenty years old—but EJ and Em agree that it is entertaining and they’d suggest to friends.
EJ finished Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng and enjoyed it, and is now beginning the Hulu show. She thinks it is a pretty solid read and show adaptation (so far).
Gareth Frank (a DC author) is in a writing group with EJ, and his book THE MOMENT BETWEEN—a psychological and metaphysical thriller recently released. EJ was an early beta for a draft and enjoys having the finished product in her hands.
The pressure of the Libby list is REAL—EJ warned Em—but she didn’t realize. Now, Em is reading against the clock.
Em is reading a book called CONURE WOMEN by Afia Atakora. Em fell in love with the beautiful cover and chose it to read without even reading the back blurb. The book is very literary and takes place in the years before and after slavery. Em is very much digging the writing style, as well as the story of intelligent women and their story of survival.
Next up on Em’s list is THE YEAR OF THE WITCHING by Alexis Henderson. She’s excited about it. Who doesn’t love a good witch story?
Don’t forget about our bookshop on bookshop.org.
Link to the Fantasy + Girl Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/shop/SFFGirlPodcast
Stay tuned for the next episode where the girls chat about the movie MA.