Dig Where You Stand

Why can’t we give them back? Episode two of Dig Where You Stand examines one of the darkest chapters of German colonial history: The genocide of the Herero and Nama peoples in German South West Africa. In 2011, Germany finally returned 20 skulls from its collection of stolen ancestral remains held at Charité hospital - and the result was a diplomatic scandal. This episode is about the politics behind repatriations, and the symbolic power these ancestors still hold.

Content warning: There are some disturbing descriptions and violent scenes discussed in this episode.

Timecodes:

• Zablon and Sindato Kiwelu visit the skull of Akida Kiwelu: 00:00 - 03:04
• Intro: 03:05 - 04:27
• 2011 Restitution Ceremony: 04:30 - 08:30
• German South West Africa and the Genocide: 08:31 - 27:18
• The evidence on the table: 27:31 - 40:17
• Why can’t we give them back? Bernhard Heeb, curator of the Museum of Pre- and Early History: 40:18 - 48:40
• Outro: 48:49 - 49:37

Some links and further reading:

• The Charité Human Remains Project
• An interview with Israel Kaunatjike at Berlin Postkolonial (German)
• Nandi Mazeingo is Chairperson of the Ovaherero Genocide Foundation
• Extra footage of the Charité event and the return to Hosea Kutako airport provided by Larissa Förster, private archive. Her article, "The Face of Genocide" can be found in The Routledge Companion to Indigenous Repatriation - Return, Reconcile, Renew
• "Skulls and Skeletons from Namibia in Berlin" an article by Holger Stocker and Andreas Winkelmann (ResearchGate)

Follow us on Instagram @digwhereyoustandshow and visit us at digwhereyoustand.show to stay up to date.

DWYS is created by Ben Schuman-Stoler and Peter Matthews. It’s produced by Kollo Media in partnership with The Berliner magazine. Episode 2 was produced by Ben Schuman-Stoler, Peter Matthews, and Rowan Ben Jackson. Mix and sound by Rowan Ben Jackson. Check out his website and work. Follow Kollo Media and The Berliner on Instagram @kollomedia and @theberlinermag. Thanks to Israel Kaunatjike, Nandi Mazeingo, Larissa Förster, Holger Stöcker, Zablon and Sindato Kiwelu, Konradin Kunze, and everyone else that we spoke to for this episode. Thanks to Laurens von Oswald for the music. Natalia Piana made the album cover.

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In between episodes 1 and 2 of Dig Where You Stand, here is our conversation with Cece Mlay and Agnes Lisa Wegner, directors of the new documentary The Empty Grave. The film follows two families in Tanzania as they demand the return of their ancestors’ remains from Germany. Follow them @the_empty_grave_film. A transcript of our conversation is available to our subscribers here.

Follow us on @digwhereyoustandshow and visit us at digwhereyoustand.show to stay up to date.

DWYS is created by Ben Schuman-Stoler and Peter Matthews. It’s produced by Kollo Media in partnership with The Berliner magazine. This episode was produced by Ben Schuman-Stoler, Peter Matthews, and Rowan Ben Jackson.

Mix and sound by Rowan Ben Jackson. Check out his website here: https://fearofmissingaudio.com/

Follow Kollo Media and The Berliner on Instagram @kollomedia and @theberlinermag

Thanks again to Cece Mlay and Agnes Lisa Wegner for the conversation.

Thanks to Laurens von Oswald for the music and Natalia Piana for the design.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’re introduced to the topic of ancestral remains through the ongoing search for Mangi Meli’s head - removed after his murder in 1900, and missing ever since. How did these remains get to Berlin, and where are they being held? Who collected them? And we explore the lasting impact on the affected families and communities today.

Peter’s article on this topic is the cover story in the current issue of The Berliner, on newsstands now.

Content warning: There are some disturbing descriptions and violent scenes discussed in this episode.

Some links we think you'll find interesting:

• De-colonize Berlin and We Want Them Back web app
• Konradin Kunze is involved with the theater company Flinn Works, check out their shows and work
• Kunze also helped organize the touring Marajesho Exhibition
• The full text of Katja Keul’s speech in Tanzania in March
• Humboldt Forum homepage
• Tickets to The Empty Grave, premiering May 14
• Follow DWYS, The Berliner, and Kollo Media
• Visit us at digwhereyoustand.show to stay up to date.

DWYS is created by Ben Schuman-Stoler and Peter Matthews. It’s produced by Kollo Media in partnership with The Berliner magazine. Episode 1 was produced by Ben Schuman-Stoler, Peter Matthews, and Rowan Ben Jackson. Mix and sound by Rowan Ben Jackson. Check out his website and work. Thanks to Laurens von Oswald for the music.

Thanks to Isabelle Reiman, Mnyaka Sururu Mboro, Bernard Heeb, Konradin Kunze, Cece Mlay, Agnes Lisa Wegner, Kodzo Gavua, Ilja Labischinski, Christopher Li and everyone we spoke to for this episode.

Correction: The Königliches Museum für Völkerkunde (today’s Ethnologisches Museum) was actually founded in 1873, not 1876 as mentioned in the episode.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

• The first episode of Dig Where You Stand will be released on April 29, 2024. Subscribe to the feed now so you’ll be notified when it comes out.
• Follow us @digwhereyoustandshow and visit us at digwhereyoustand.show, where you can sign up for the material we'll release in the newsletter.
• DWYS is created by Ben Schuman-Stoler and Peter Matthews.
• It’s produced by Kollo Media, Ben Schuman-Stoler, Peter Matthews, and Rowan Ben Jackson in partnership with The Berliner magazine.
• Check out Peter’s cover article when the next issue of The Berliner hits newsstands later this week and follow The Berliner on IG.
• Music by Laurens von Oswald.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“An event never before experienced in the history of medicine worldwide is realized here.” Episode 3 of Dig Where You Stand picks up the story where we left off. By examining a recent significant discovery of ancestral human remains in Berlin - when pits filled with human bones were found in 2014 - we continue the story of how German scientists harvested human bodies in the name of racist and unethical science. This episode covers a harrowing chapter of German history, telling the story of the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institute of Anthropology, Human heredity and Eugenics: Its founding by Eugen Fischer in 1927; the work of Karin Magnussen and Joseph Mengele; the memoir of Miklos Nyiszli; and how researchers based in Berlin asked for and were sent human bodies and body parts from Auschwitz. These crimes were brought back to public attention in Berlin in 2014, when workers digging a trench at the Free University came across pits filled with human bones. The University's failure to respond meant that seven sacks of human remains were burned by the municipal crematorium. In this final episode of Dig Where You Stand season one, we look at how the dead continue to return and ask what responsibility these human remains should demand of us.

Content warning: There are some disturbing descriptions and violent scenes discussed in this episode.

Some relevant links you'll find interesting:

• Götz Aly’s controversial article in the BZ: https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/mensch-metropole/knochenfunde-auf-dem-fu-gelaende-alle-spuren-weisen-nach-auschwitz-li.162699
• And FU’s response: https://www.fu-berlin.de/presse/informationen/fup/2021/fup_21_110-erwiderung-knochenfunde/index.html
• Video: “Bone fragments held by the Nazis get funeral in Berlin | AFP”: https://youtu.be/2g-OL-z_t9w?si=_yrifO9vf0ipicwJ
• Audio of Te Herekieke came from the exhibition Unpacking Colonialism film made by Sofia Leikam. Watch it (and other videos) here: https://unpacking-colonialism.gbv.de/te-herekiekie-herewini/

Follow us on Instagram @digwhereyoustandshow and visit us at digwhereyoustand.show to stay up to date. DWYS is created by Ben Schuman-Stoler and Peter Matthews. It’s produced by Kollo Media in partnership with The Berliner magazine. Episode 3 was produced by Ben Schuman-Stoler, Peter Matthews, and Rowan Ben Jackson.

Mix and sound by Rowan Ben Jackson. Check out his website here: https://fearofmissingaudio.com/

Follow Kollo Media and The Berliner on Instagram @kollomedia and @theberlinermag

Thanks to Susan Pollock, Te Herekiekie, Christian Vogel, Ilja Labischinski, and everyone we spoke to for this episode.

Thanks to Laurens von Oswald for the music.

Natalia Piana made the album cover.

Timestamps:

• Intro: 00:00 - 01:58
• Susan Pollock explains the discovery: 01:58 - 09:01
• Eugen Fischer, the KWI, racial hygiene: 09:01 - 17:31
• Auschwitz, Mengele, Miklos Nyiszli: 17:31 - 26:01
• Plaque at the former KWI building: 26:01 - 28:37
• The funeral: 28:37 - 38:08
• Positive Returns, Te Herekieke: 38:08 - 42:00
• Reflections: 42:00 - 46:40
• Conclusion: 46:40 - 47:20

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.