DGC Ep 240: Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time (part five)

12/16/20 • 94 min

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Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we continue our series on The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We dive into the Water Temple (see what I did there?) as well as elaborating more about some topics we touched on last time. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary.

Sections played: Through the Water Temple

Issues covered: what Tim means when he talks about Hyrule Field, lack of prior art for 3D hub and spoke, the beginnings of an open world, sight lines for blocking and enticing, breaking the prior structures, physically representing the choice space of macro decisions, looking at a level in a tool to get a sense of scale, getting different perspectives, seeing the DNA of 3D Zelda, getting a sense of a space, a return to Goron City, revisiting areas with new tools, stealing object-oriented quest design, filling in the slots and a sense of accomplishment, gaining levels or using an economy for reward, hybrid systems, allowing for player choice, renting tools in later versions, getting to Breath of the Wild and having all tools fairly early, not caring about remaining progression stuff, what happened to Jabbu-Jabbu?, dabbling with buoyancy and friction on the ice, having a tool that's only useful in one dungeon/Domain, having to give up something in a bottle, having a need for that analog stick, having to make decisions about how you'll use a container, concretizing the abstract, an area of effect key, how they devised their rules, Navi's... cryptic hint, using stores as a clue mechanism, a usability feature, replacing lost items, how many hearts Dark Link have, a camera problem with the Forest Temple boss, taking off the boots as soon as you get in the temple, the water level as a state you can change many times, the floating platforms as an item of interest, hookshot anchors, the potential influence of Tomb Raider and The Cistern, a quick aside on which versions we're playing, the creepy reveal of Dark Link, how we each defeated that boss, the evolution of wearables as also bindable in the future, upgrading a tool instead, making it clearer that you need another means of solving a puzzle, the cold hard truth about fishing games, variant gameplay should be easy, a preference for Tim's explanation for all the Legends of Zelda.

Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Dark Souls, Demon's Souls, Super Mario 64, Disney World, LucasArts, N64, Shadows of the Empire, Dark Forces, Rogue Squadron, DOOM (1993), TIE Fighter, World of Warcraft, Republic Commando, Dave Collins, Jesse Harlin, GTA III, Metroid, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Troy Mashburn, Arkham (series), Link Between Worlds, Skyward Sword, Kingdom Hearts, Diablo, Path of Exile, Torchlight II, Tomb Raider, 3DS, Chrono Trigger, Milo Kent, Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut, Okami, Jak and Daxter, Ben "from Iowa" Zaugg, Link to the Past, Switch, Dungeons & Dragons, Sam Thomas, Brian David Gilbert, Polygon, Halo, Vlad, Kirk Hamilton, Strong Songs, Ultima Underworld, Final Fantasy, Aaron Evers.

Links: Brian David Gilbert's total Hyrule timeline

Next time: The next two Temples

Twitch: brettdouville, instagram:timlongojr, Twitter: @timlongojr and @devgameclub [email protected]

Sections played: Through the Water Temple

Links: Brian David Gilbert's total Hyrule timeline

Next time: The next two Temples

Twitch: brettdouville, instagram:timlongojr, Twitter: @timlongojr and @devgameclub [email protected]

Previous Episode

DGC Ep 239: Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time (part four)

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we continue our series on The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We talk a lot about cluing direction, small keys, and the two dungeons we played. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary.

Sections played: Through the Fire Temple!

Issues covered: what brings out the email, developing a relationship with Sheik, having trouble figuring out how to go back and forth in time, getting stuck in the Goron City, weird cluing, the lingering effects of a critical path mini-game, not knowing there's a verb in the graveyard, the inconsistency of the grab/pull verb, signalling critical path via text, the expanding set of verbs and the expanding amount of space they can be used in, "horse teeth," where your head goes when the puzzle logic is vague, stumbling upon a critical key and not knowing that's what it was, trying to figure out the what the key is from the shape of the lock, discussing where the bottles are, the multiplicative effective of verbs, wondering about whether the time change is critical path, world changes, psychological safety in world changes, big bang for buck, good camera trickery in the Forest Temple, making you believe more is going on than really is, "Object-Oriented Quests," quest status screen and the objects on it, abstract pegs on a board, strong work through theming, lack of copyright over game mechanics, making an RPG without a quest log, not usually being able to add UI elements indefinitely, keeping the same formula and iterating it and pushing it, feeling unsettled by small keys in the Forest Temple, wanting more clarity from key linearity, the interchangeability of the small keys, directing the player attention via a side goal, wanting specific keys, the fact that keys are not shared between dungeons, the impact of age, the Headless Horseman feel of the Phantom Ganondorf, timing and attacking/returning an attack, being misclued by Navi in combat, needing to worry about magic (or not), a serpent-style dragon, having a routine before attempting a boss, music in these two dungeons, revisiting the fishing game when Link is an adult, how different people bounce off different challenges, teaching players to throw the bomb, updating the contextual button text, overworld sparseness, the performance choices in 3D overworlds, the tiling rendering being the same as being in a level in 2D Zeldas, changing pace with Hyrule Field.

Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: SNES, N64, Day of the Tentacle, Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine (obliquely), Tomb Raider, Super Mario (series), DOOM (1993), Spelunky, Final Fantasy (series), Drew, Mark Garcia, Walker, Chris Hecker, Rubik's Cube, LucasArts, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers.

Next time: Two More Dungeons!

Twitch: brettdouville, instagram:timlongojr, Twitter: @timlongojr and @devgameclub [email protected]

Next Episode

DGC Ep 241: Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time (part six)

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we continue our series on The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We talk about the ability to play things out of order and the precursor dungeons and temples of this section of the game. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary.

Sections played: through the Spirit Temple

Issues covered: the possibility for going out of order to dungeons, being able to get all the tools, how to speedrun this, not being sure about what map stuff means, being stumped by side quests, watching Tim Schafer beat the boss, visiting the Gerudo area as a child, being confused by the carpenters, only knowing when you have done a thing, Brett gives a hint, the 3D representation adding a level of epic feel, reproducing progress in the save file, seeing the beginnings of lots of 3D adventure and puzzle tropes, the potential influence of Tomb Raider, teaching you how to think with the Lens of Truth, not enjoying the magic drain of the Lens, making you think about other tools when you run out of a resource, finding the third magic, wondering how to thaw the Zora domain, the well and the connection to the Shadow Temple, the stencil effect of the Lens of Truth, performance on the N64, using knowledge of your inventory to know whether you need to approach as a child or an adult, having more keys that aren't keys, discussing the longshot vs the arrows and timing, the difficulties of the Phantom Bongo Bongo, the design of the witch beams, fighting the Z-targeting, seeing how much of the formula they got right here, preferred length of dungeon vs shrines and temples, the OCD nightmare, being able to re-enter a space from multiple directions, missing the set piece centrality of a hub in first-person design, a fine review, wild connections between this and the preceding games in feedback, who is Impa in Breath of the Wild, transcending lore nonsense, specificity with myth and fireside stories, a present for the listeners.

Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Tim Schafer, Grim Fandango, Breath of the Wild, Link to the Past, Tomb Raider, PlayStation, Spyro the Dragon, Crash Bandicoot, The Witcher 3, JJ Abrams, Silicon Graphics, Starfighter, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, irreverentQ, Link Between Worlds, Uncharted, John Romero, SIGIL, DOOM (1993), Far Cry, Dishonored, Pokemon, tylenardo, Billy/The2ndQuest, Toy Story, Jim Henson, The Christmas Toy, Star Wars, How to Defeat a Demon King in Ten Easy Steps, Age of Calamity, Mark Garcia, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers.

Links: Ocarina TV ad

Twilight Princess trailer

Next time: Finish the Game!

Twitch: brettdouville, instagram:timlongojr, Twitter: @timlongojr and @devgameclub [email protected]