Christian Woman Leadership Podcast with Esther Littlefield & Holly Cain

What happens when you end up in leadership roles after devastating circumstances? How do you navigate the tension between building a business and being faithful to God’s calling?

In this episode, I interview Abby Rike Rockenbaugh and discuss how she learned how to embrace unexpected leadership after loss. You’ll hear some powerful reminders about the importance of sharing your story.

Abby’s leadership journey started when she was young. She was referred to as “bossy”, but learned to tone down those skills because she wanted to have friends.

Abby was often chosen as the leader within group projects growing up, but she truly realized she was a leader when she was in college. She shares about an experience when she was in a group project where she was not the designated leader.

After the project was over, Abby’s professor shared with her that the other members of her group all indicated that they felt that she was actually the leader. Her professor then called out her gift of leadership, which was a turning point for Abby.

Instead of viewing herself as bossy and annoying, she was able to embrace that being a leader was a good thing.

Abby shares about her defining moment that changed her life forever. She explains that during her grief, leadership was not even something on her radar. She was simply surviving. She had to wrestle with whether God was who she had always thought him to be.

After walking through that experience, she felt that now leadership was not just about her natural giftings, but rather about a calling. She now had a responsibility to share her story and point people to Jesus.

Abby believes that everyone has a story, and that it’s important for people to know how to share their story.

She and I chat about when she recognized that it was time to share her story, and how some of these opportunities turned out to be completely unexpected.

Abby ended up being chosen to be a contestant on The Biggest Loser. After this, God opened more doors for public speaking and other platforms to share her story. We discuss how many times God just asks us to take the next right step.

I ask Abby how she manages the tension of growing a business vs. following God’s calling on her life. Her best advice is that if something doesn’t rest well within your soul, don’t do it.

With leadership, you have to be willing to swim against the current.

Abby shares that she has found the spiritual gift test to be extremely helpful to her as a a leader. She believes that it’s important for us to claim the gifts God has given us. As a reluctant leader, stepping into her gifts and owning them has been the best thing she could do to become a more effective leader.

I ask Abby what she has done to embrace how God has wired her. She says that she believes that if she does not accept her identity, then she is calling God a liar. She goes to the source of truth, God’s word, to determine who she really is.

We discuss the source of confidence, false humility, and the tension between accepting your gifts and becoming prideful in them.

We chat about the importance of having mentors and people who will help you to stay accountable. It’s important to find people who get you, but who will also tell you the truth. You also need people who can be there for you when you are really having a difficult time.

Abby is passionate about equipping women to be in the word of God. This stems out of her own experience of being a prodigal for many years, and being wooed back to God by His word. She became a Christian as a young child, but she wasn’t truly discipled.

Her passion now is to help women understand the character of God. She wants women to experience the transformation of their heart and life.

Abby’s ministry, RockThis, was born out of this passion.

We also chat about her Speaking For Bloggers business and the history behind this, including when God said “no.” Abby shares how God ended up opening some big doors, including having the opportunity to be on Ruth Soukup’s podcast, Do It Scared. Following the podcast, Ruth invited Abby to be part of a bigger speaking opportunity.

In Christian leadership, there are some things that are different than what the typical business advice might be. Instead of beating down the doors, it’s spending time in prayer and having your speech prepared. You can do the preparatory things so that when God says “go”, you’re ready.

The bigger doors sometimes open when we’re obedient in the small things.

How do you trust God when your entire world is turned upside down? And how do you cling to truth when you’re the target of criticism and doubt?

Amanda Florczykowksi joins me for this episode to share her story of a first-hand encounter with a sex trafficking attempt, her decision to go public with the experience, and the resistance she ran into as a result. Take a listen to hear how Amanda learned to trust God in the midst of each step of her journey, as well as how she was able to choose truth in the midst of doubts.

• Amanda’s life & leadership [4:27]
• What led Amanda to write her book “Unraveled” [9:34]
• Going public with her story [17:30]
• Processing criticism and rejection [24:05]
• How rejection changed her view of persecution [28:12]
• How to respond to criticism as a leader [33:01]
• • Importance of having a mission and vision
  • Know when it’s time to lead and when it’s time to leave
  • Never give up
• Dealing with doubt from those who are closest to you [38:57]
• Leadership lessons from the publishing process [50:31]
• Leaders are Learners [54:40]

“I never questioned God, but I started to question my perception of him.”

“Every good leader at some point has had to wrestle in pain and the ones that emerge the best leaders are the ones that have encountered it and been able to walk through it with the Lord.”

“You have so much for grace for people when you recognize it is a spiritual battle.”

“When you understand in leadership that you will be misunderstood--I didn’t say judged, but misunderstood--it gives you room to love and the grace to recover.”

“When the voice we trust on earth the most makes us feel like God can’t be trusted we must choose truth. You have to choose truth.”

“Wise counsel should never trump God’s word or what He has spoken to us.”

“Know how to study your bible, then study it.”

“Christian leaders are so needed, but you have to start with God’s word to be impactful.”

Amanda’s book - Unraveled: Mothering Fiercely in a World Full of Fears

Leadership as an Identity by Crawford Loritts

The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell

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Amanda Florczykowski is an intrinsic lover of risk, progress, and people. Her ability to merge all three embodies her personal mission. Her love for women, her desire to see families strengthened, and her unabashed faith in Christ Jesus have led her to found a MOPS International© ministry group and a University-Model® School. As a degreed communicator, Amanda’s professional career, pre-kiddos, included awards and high heels as both an educator and top marketing professional for an industry leader.

When not involved in family life, reading, or writing, Amanda uses her pioneering ambition and experience to partner with business CEO and Development Pastor husband to consult with organizations who desire to prosper. Lastly, she is a magnetic motivator speaking on the topics of motherhood, leadership, and faith (see ‘Speaking’ tab above).

Amanda’s family of six, along with their German Shepherd, Radd, live in the Texas Hill Country outside Austin. And while accomplishments are part of a bio, Amanda wants you to know they don't rival her joys; a nightly sunset, "I love you" from her child's mouth, answered prayers, a good night's rest, a big, Saturday breakfast, a clean kitchen, a hot bath, board games, finding $10 in her pocket, a good movie, date night, and welcoming friends into her home to eat and laugh.

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How can you develop healthy relationships with those you lead? And how does knowing your own wiring impact how you do this?

To celebrate 3 years of the Christian Woman Leadership Podcast, we are sharing a “Best of” series. Today’s episode is the best of our first year of the podcast: Episode 17: How the Enneagram Can Help You Nurture Healthy Relationships with Beth McCord.

In recent years, there has been some controversy related to the Enneagram and questions about whether Christians should utilize it. Therefore, in the intro for this ‘best of’ episode, I’m sharing some thoughts about this and some resources for you to consider if you want more information.

Resources:

Blog post: “Should Christians Use the Enneagram?”

Podcast series from Your Enneagram Coach:

• #64: Thinking Theologically About the Enneagram
• #65: A Response to the History of the Enneagram
• #66: The Christian Approach to Using the Enneagram

A final note about this topic:

I want to encourage you to do your own research, prayer, and ask the Holy Spirit to give you discernment as to whether the Enneagram is a tool that you would want to utilize or not.

I am not here to tell you one way or another what you should believe or do in regards to this issue. I do not see it spelled out clearly in scripture, and thus I’m not going to tell you that my perspective is the only right one. (And check out episode 112 for guidance on sharing your personal convictions).

For the show notes for this episode, visit estherlittlefield.com/episode159.

Do you ever find yourself wondering how you can keep going at this pace? Have you struggled with feeling tired all the time even though you’re getting enough rest? It might be that you’re on the verge of burning out. Or, you simply might not be getting the right type of rest.

In episode 210, I will be re-sharing an episode that originally aired in 2020 with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith. We know not all of our listeners have listened to our backlog of episodes, and this one felt incredibly timely as it was such a great conversation about burnout, rest, and getting out of an urgency mindset.

Make sure to check out Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith’s book, Sacred Rest, if you enjoy today’s conversation!

For the show notes for this episode, head here!

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Christian leaders need to take care of their mental health along with their spiritual health. But many times, leaders are hesitant to reach out to get healing from past trauma or speak up about mental health concerns. Why is that, and what can we do about it?

In our 2nd episode in our mental health series, Holly and I chat with our guest Dr. Barbara Lowe about recovering from trauma, finding healing, and getting support for mental health.

In addition to sharing her own story, Dr. Barbara also gives us some practical tips and tools to deal with our own mental health, as well as how to help guide and lead others if they are struggling.

We cover why leaders often don’t reach out for help with mental health, what to do if someone is depressed or suicidal, and more. Through the conversation, Dr. Barbara helps us gain a holistic view of mental health, considering how our faith is connected to all of this.

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• Dr. Barbara’s Leadership Journey [5:30]
• • An “unlikely leader” because of her past
  • How Dr. Barbara moved into a healthy place [13:50]
• Faith plus therapy model for healing trauma [18:00]
• How spiritual health and mental health are connected [25:30]
• Why Christian leaders avoid the topic of mental health [28:25]
• • Barriers that leaders face
  • Start being more open about our struggles
• How we can support leaders who do open up [34:00]
• When do we ourselves need to get help for ourselves [37:03]
• • Common points of anxiety, depression, or anger
  • Addictions and pain points in our relationships
• What to do when another person does not want to participate in the change [40:48]
• When pastors should refer out in counseling [43:00]
• • Vetting potential counselors
• Dealing with suicide [47:20]
• • Suicidal thoughts are a normal part of depression
  • Need to be aware of intent, method, and means
  • Get other people involved, especially a mental health professional
  • Ask questions!
• Leaders are Learners [54:30]

Quotes are by Dr. Barbara Lowe unless otherwise noted.

• “God, turn this into a beautiful place.”
• "Healing is from God."
• “None of us go through middle school unscathed.”
• “God will go as deep as we let Him.”
• “A lot of people try and forgive before they even realize they are angry.”
• "God wants to heal us so that we can leave a legacy on this earth, so that we can align with His purpose."
• "We are going to be much healthier leaders if we let [our wounds] be healed."
• “God put gifts of healing in the body, and this is one of them.”
• “You’re not going to have a healthy flock if you’re not healthy at the top.”
• “A lot of times when we open up, we don’t want the fix; we want the presence.”
• “When what you are providing isn’t helping or making things worse, then you need to get a professional involved; there’s no shame in that.”
• “Suicidal thoughts are part of depression often, and we kind of need to normalize that.”
• “Err on the side of asking, and asking to the point of being a nuisance.”
• “It’s easier to not talk about it; it’s easier to pretend like everything is okay.” - Esther Littlefield
• "There's a lot of things that we're not talking about that we need to talk about."

• Progressive Relaxation
• “Self-momming” skill
• 5-4-3-2-1 grounding technique
• The Emotionally Destructive Marriage: How to Find Your Voice and Reclaim Your Hope by Leslie Vernick
• The Emotionally Destructive Relationship by Leslie Vernick
• Leaders are Learners: World Women’s Wholeness Summit

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