
15 \\ What Does The Bible REALLY Say About Narcissists, And How Can Abuse-Informed Biblical Counseling Help In Marriage With A Narcissistic Spouse? A Conversation With Kelli Russell Of Grace Matters
08/30/22 • 28 min
What does the Bible say about these people we call “narcissists,” what do they look like, and how can abuse-informed biblical counseling help in a marriage with a narcissistic spouse?
Listen to this episode and learn:
-One of the main things you DON’T see in a narcissistic individual
-One of the biggest signs a woman is in a narcissistic relationship
-Why marriage counseling doesn’t work when you’re married to someone with narcissistic tendencies
More takeaways:
We want to be cautious about using the term “narcissism” in the same way secular psychology does for a couple of reasons: first, we’re dealing with people created in the image of God, and second, there is always a possibility of change in Christ. We’re not to walk in fear or hopelessness with these people, even if we end up needing to separate from them.
Narcissism is what the Bible calls selfishness and pride, and it occurs on a scale. One thing that distinguishes narcissists from your average sinner who struggles with anger, selfishness, and arrogance is an unwillingness to receive counsel— they evade counsel time and time again.
A person can be narcissistic without being perniciously oppressive. Oppression is a problem with power and control; narcissists don’t always evidence a problem with power and control, but they always demonstrate an exceptionally high desire for self-protection. They want to be seen as “having it all together,” and will do anything to protect the image of who they are.
So, the two things that define narcissism are not so much the degree of pride and selfishness, but the self-protection and unwillingness to receive counsel.
Goals for individual (NOT marital) counseling: strengthen the base of the survivor, and hold the spouse with narcissistic tendencies accountable, that they may begin to see their heart the way God sees their heart.
For counseling information from Grace Matters, Kelli Russell's biblical counseling ministry, visit https://www.gracemattersministries.org/
Join our Christ-Dependent Single Motherhood Facebook community, for Christian single moms like you, whether you're divorced, separated, widowed, or never married! https://bit.ly/CDSMFacebook
Send us a note at [email protected]
What does the Bible say about these people we call “narcissists,” what do they look like, and how can abuse-informed biblical counseling help in a marriage with a narcissistic spouse?
Listen to this episode and learn:
-One of the main things you DON’T see in a narcissistic individual
-One of the biggest signs a woman is in a narcissistic relationship
-Why marriage counseling doesn’t work when you’re married to someone with narcissistic tendencies
More takeaways:
We want to be cautious about using the term “narcissism” in the same way secular psychology does for a couple of reasons: first, we’re dealing with people created in the image of God, and second, there is always a possibility of change in Christ. We’re not to walk in fear or hopelessness with these people, even if we end up needing to separate from them.
Narcissism is what the Bible calls selfishness and pride, and it occurs on a scale. One thing that distinguishes narcissists from your average sinner who struggles with anger, selfishness, and arrogance is an unwillingness to receive counsel— they evade counsel time and time again.
A person can be narcissistic without being perniciously oppressive. Oppression is a problem with power and control; narcissists don’t always evidence a problem with power and control, but they always demonstrate an exceptionally high desire for self-protection. They want to be seen as “having it all together,” and will do anything to protect the image of who they are.
So, the two things that define narcissism are not so much the degree of pride and selfishness, but the self-protection and unwillingness to receive counsel.
Goals for individual (NOT marital) counseling: strengthen the base of the survivor, and hold the spouse with narcissistic tendencies accountable, that they may begin to see their heart the way God sees their heart.
For counseling information from Grace Matters, Kelli Russell's biblical counseling ministry, visit https://www.gracemattersministries.org/
Join our Christ-Dependent Single Motherhood Facebook community, for Christian single moms like you, whether you're divorced, separated, widowed, or never married! https://bit.ly/CDSMFacebook
Send us a note at [email protected]
Previous Episode

14 \\ “I’m Walking On Eggshells With My Husband ALL THE TIME - What Do I Do?” - Help For Women Married To Narcissists Or In Abusive Marriages With Joy Forrest Of Called To Peace
Hey friends! The more women I talk to, the more I see who find themselves between a rock and a hard place when it comes to their marriage.
An imbalance of power and control within a marriage can create constant fear, a sense of walking on eggshells, never knowing what’s going to happen next, and coming to believe that there is something inherently wrong with yourself — because clearly, if your husband is always unhappy with you, frequently angry at what you do, that would be the correct conclusion .... right?
It can be hard to know what’s worse... the perpetual put-downs, the crazy-making, and the betrayal, or the physical violence that often occurs.
If you’re in a situation like this, or if you ever have been, know this: if you’re in Christ, God is for you, not against you. He will never leave you nor forsake you, and his grace is sufficient for you. We have a promise in James 1:5 that He gives wisdom freely to all who ask, without reproach, and we know that much wisdom is needed within oppressive marriages.
One of the wonderful ways that God provides that wisdom is through other believers, and today we have Joy Forrest back with us, talking about the Called to Peace ministry once again, and how they help women who find themselves within a destructive marriage, whether we call those marriages oppressive or narcissistic or abusive, and how Called to Peace walks with them through the with them through the process as they make choices about what to do.
*******
The decision to leave, or stay in, a marriage where there’s an imbalance of power and control — an abusive marriage — is a weighty decision, but it ultimately needs to be made in a prayerful, Scripture-saturated, and counsel-seeking way *by the woman*; she ought not be TOLD to separate or divorce.
In this week’s episode, Joy shares about her journey out of abuse and PTSD into healing — by the power of the Holy Spirit, through the Word of God.
She also talks about how Called to Peace offers highly-trained domestic violence advocates to women within, or coming out of, abusive or narcissistic marriages — to stabilize the woman’s situation, and have the best possible outcome.
She touches on how the way we talk about the abuse dynamic in court can make a big difference in the outcome of a separation, divorce, or custody case. She shares how women should describe to the judge the top-five worst issues within the relationship, use the power and control wheel, and avoid the use of the word “abuse” or “narcissism.” Judges have been trained to believe that claiming abuse is a way for a woman to get custody of her children. By explaining the situation without using those trigger terms, a better outcome is possible.
Called to Peace is undenominational and broadly evangelical, working with churches of a variety denominations, and respects the theological viewpoints of those they seek to help, as long as women and children are being kept safe.
(Joy joined us from her daughter’s hospital room as she prepared to welcome a grandchild! We’re so thankful she was willing to be interviewed under the circumstances!)
You can find Called To Peace Ministries at https://www.calledtopeace.org/
Joy Forrest’s book, Called To Peace, can be purchased here: https://amzn.to/3CcrZ9o
Join our Christ-Dependent Single Motherhood Facebook community, for Christian single moms like you, whether you're divorced, separated, widowed, or never married! https://bit.ly/CDSMFacebook
Send us a note at [email protected]
Next Episode

16 \\ How To Spot A Narcissist - Dating After Divorce Or Widowhood For Christian Single Moms, With Biblical Counselor Kelli Russell Of Grace Matters
Hi there! I can’t believe it’s September already. This year is definitely flying by. In honor of this new fall season, where most of us are watching the weather and the landscape start change, and people are getting back to school or homeschooling, we are offering a fall giveaway! The book bundle that we’re offering is Elisabeth Elliot’s book, Suffering is Never for Nothing, Chris Brauns’ Unpacking Forgiveness— by the way, Pastor Brauns is going to be joining us on the podcast in a few weeks, very excited about that— and the third book is Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy by Mark Vroegop, which we discussed on episodes 9 and 10, when we were talking about biblical lament with Ryan Higginbottom. I know that all three of these books are going to be as much of a blessing to you as they have been to me, so if you’d like to be entered in in the drawing, go ahead and leave us a written review over on Apple podcasts or the podcasting platform of your choice. Take a screenshot of that written review and post it in our Facebook group Christ-Dependent Single Motherhood!
Apple podcast reviewers will get 2 entries, and all the other podcast platform reviews will get one entry. You can leave a written review for us on as many podcast platforms as you like! And if you’ve already done one, you can write a review on others - that’s totally fine! Now, this is just for the month of September, so write those reviews now if you want a chance to get these excellent books for free!
Last week we had Kelli Russell with us, talking about what the Bible says about narcissists and narcissism, and today she’s joining us again to answer this question, “How do I spot a narcissist as I prepare for dating after divorce or widowhood?”
This was such a great conversation. Two of the biggest takeaways I walked away with were to bathe the whole situation thoroughly in prayer, and to refuse to walk in fear, trusting that the Lord will lead and guide as we seek Him and use His wisdom in dating.
This is definitely an episode to share with people you know might benefit, so go ahead and be sure to send them a link!
For women who have had experience with narcissistic marriages or relationships in the past, remember - the heart-work (or healing!) needs to be done in *you* before you’re ready to date, and another essential element is building a safe community around you. God’s people in our local congregations are indispensable here.
Never date someone in isolation. Bring in godly, wise people to weigh in with their opinions. Also, look at the man’s FRUIT (Luke 6:43-46), his FAMILY relationships, his FRIEND groups, and his CHURCH community.
Kelli mentions Warren Lamb’s book, Behind the Veil, as a great resource: https://amzn.to/3ATrbUA
For counseling information from Grace Matters, Kelli Russell's biblical counseling ministry, visit https://www.gracemattersministries.org/
Join our Christ-Dependent Single Motherhood Facebook community, for Christian single moms like you, whether you're divorced, separated, widowed, or never married! https://bit.ly/CDSMFacebook
Send us a note at [email protected]
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