
254: Susan David Ph. D
09/30/18 • 77 min
I am so excited to be sharing my conversation with Susan David with you.
Her book "emotional agility” was one of the books I devoured in the first few months of coming off of meds, as I tried to learn more about my head and about what’s going on when I get triggered with panic or rumination.
The wide angle view of Susan’s work is that discomfort or indeed uncomfortable feelings is the price of admission to a meaningful life.
When I first saw her Ted Talk, “The Gift and Power of Emotional Courage" which has well over 3 Million Views by now - this was like a revelation to me.
I say to Audrey all the time - I have these moments where it’s like we’ve hit the “release” button on the pressure cooker - just one small string of words or an idea can free me from the swirling vortex of rumination.
And when I first heard Susan’s hypothesis, this was like permission to have this discomfort within my body - and that indeed absorbing it and realising that not only was I bigger than it but also that it would pass - well that was incredibly liberating. Bear in mind that I needed to be on meds for a long time until I was able to hear such things and have them stick - when I was sick and experiencing psychosis it wouldn’t have mattered if A Harvard Ph,D psychologist like Susan David sat in my kitchen and told me this like she does today - it simply wouldn’t have mattered.
But thankfully I have healed a lot and I’m getting about doing the daily work so that ideas and concepts like this can indeed stick in and make a difference to my day.
In fact just this morning, Audrey and I were coming back from the airport after a lovely week away in Bali, when I did something I shouldn’t have done on three hours of sitting in a chair plane sleep.
I opened twitter and saw an article claiming that the Trump administration was using an unstoppable and cataclysmic climate change projection of a 7oC rise by 2100 was justification that car emission regulations weren’t going to make a difference to why not lift the restrictions and just go to town on emissions since we’re all going to die anyway.
Now if you’ve read my book you’ll know that Climate Change was my trigger - and indeed the paranoid delusions I was experiencing convinced me that such a scenario as this projection was happening today and I was the only one that knew about it.
So as I sat in the back of a cab, my body just teetering on the edge of sunburn and tan after a week reading my Yuval Noah Harari book in the sunshine, my wife texting the dog sitter trying to reunite us with Frank later that day, the familiarly cool and punishing stab of fear pierced my stomach.
Crisp and precise, my intestines turned to macrame and my heart nearly bursting through my ears. I could hardly breathe and as I look at the peerless blue sky and a man walking past in shorts I feel the icky tendrils return into my brain, the blue sky is bad, it should be cloudy this time of year - why’s he wearing shorts? It’s supposed to be cold? These two things clearly mean this article is correct, fuuuck here we go... I’m suddenly completely disconnected to the present. I’m no longer in the cab, no longer with Audrey, no longer basking in the glow of a week in Bali lying around by a pool reading books with my lover.
I’ve been hijacked and I’m now imprisoned in a cage of future fear that feels completely real in my mind, utterly disconnected with where my body actually is.
So I go straight to my tools. Breathe. Get control of my breathing. Feel my feet in my socks. Get into this moment. Get into my body. Reach out and touch Audrey on the hand. Connect with her and this reality right now, not the one in 82 years from now.
Breathe some more.
Where is this feeling in my body?
It’s in my...
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
I am so excited to be sharing my conversation with Susan David with you.
Her book "emotional agility” was one of the books I devoured in the first few months of coming off of meds, as I tried to learn more about my head and about what’s going on when I get triggered with panic or rumination.
The wide angle view of Susan’s work is that discomfort or indeed uncomfortable feelings is the price of admission to a meaningful life.
When I first saw her Ted Talk, “The Gift and Power of Emotional Courage" which has well over 3 Million Views by now - this was like a revelation to me.
I say to Audrey all the time - I have these moments where it’s like we’ve hit the “release” button on the pressure cooker - just one small string of words or an idea can free me from the swirling vortex of rumination.
And when I first heard Susan’s hypothesis, this was like permission to have this discomfort within my body - and that indeed absorbing it and realising that not only was I bigger than it but also that it would pass - well that was incredibly liberating. Bear in mind that I needed to be on meds for a long time until I was able to hear such things and have them stick - when I was sick and experiencing psychosis it wouldn’t have mattered if A Harvard Ph,D psychologist like Susan David sat in my kitchen and told me this like she does today - it simply wouldn’t have mattered.
But thankfully I have healed a lot and I’m getting about doing the daily work so that ideas and concepts like this can indeed stick in and make a difference to my day.
In fact just this morning, Audrey and I were coming back from the airport after a lovely week away in Bali, when I did something I shouldn’t have done on three hours of sitting in a chair plane sleep.
I opened twitter and saw an article claiming that the Trump administration was using an unstoppable and cataclysmic climate change projection of a 7oC rise by 2100 was justification that car emission regulations weren’t going to make a difference to why not lift the restrictions and just go to town on emissions since we’re all going to die anyway.
Now if you’ve read my book you’ll know that Climate Change was my trigger - and indeed the paranoid delusions I was experiencing convinced me that such a scenario as this projection was happening today and I was the only one that knew about it.
So as I sat in the back of a cab, my body just teetering on the edge of sunburn and tan after a week reading my Yuval Noah Harari book in the sunshine, my wife texting the dog sitter trying to reunite us with Frank later that day, the familiarly cool and punishing stab of fear pierced my stomach.
Crisp and precise, my intestines turned to macrame and my heart nearly bursting through my ears. I could hardly breathe and as I look at the peerless blue sky and a man walking past in shorts I feel the icky tendrils return into my brain, the blue sky is bad, it should be cloudy this time of year - why’s he wearing shorts? It’s supposed to be cold? These two things clearly mean this article is correct, fuuuck here we go... I’m suddenly completely disconnected to the present. I’m no longer in the cab, no longer with Audrey, no longer basking in the glow of a week in Bali lying around by a pool reading books with my lover.
I’ve been hijacked and I’m now imprisoned in a cage of future fear that feels completely real in my mind, utterly disconnected with where my body actually is.
So I go straight to my tools. Breathe. Get control of my breathing. Feel my feet in my socks. Get into this moment. Get into my body. Reach out and touch Audrey on the hand. Connect with her and this reality right now, not the one in 82 years from now.
Breathe some more.
Where is this feeling in my body?
It’s in my...
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Previous Episode

253: LIVE with Marcus Engman
Marcus Engman is the head of Design at Ikea of Sweden.
With one billion customers on this planet - I’d be surprised if you have never lived with a piece of Ikea furniture.
This podcast was recorded as a part of a special Ikea event in Sydney, and they’d invited me to interview Marcus on the night and have a conversation about design.
But don’t worry this is not a conversation about furniture.
Because for a moment - just think about the importance of design.
A phrase I’m hung on at the moment around my book is ‘thoughts become things’. Look around you right now - every single object that is non-organic or non-geological in origin was once a thought in someone’s head. It was conceived in totality by someone, existing only in a mesh of neurones in their brains until it was created into being out of raw materials and now is something you can hold, touch, or use.
This is true for every object around you.
That chair, that rug, your car, your undies, every single object around you was once a thought.
And thoughts, as we know - become things.
This is true for both positive and negative thoughts, with enough deliberate and inspired action, they manifest into reality.
And as Marcus describes that object can be designed not only for you to use, and hopefully make your life better - but perhaps be designed to change the way you behave, as a way of influencing you in a way that words or actions cannot.
Marcus is a fascinating man, we get into his story in this chat so I won’t repeat it here - however I was absolutely thrilled to speak with him in front of a sold-out crowd of about two hundred people at the MCA in Sydney.
I’d love your thoughts on this one - so please email me [email protected]
Enjoy this conversation with Marcus Engman
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Next Episode

Remembering Quentin Kenihan
I’m sad today.
Because even though Wayne Coyne from the flaming lips tells us that everyone we know someday will die, it’s still tough when they do.
Over the weekend my friend, Disability Advocate, Author, Playwright, director, producer, actor and multiple podcast guest Quentin Kenihan passed away.
He was 43.
He was also a man that had been told he’s not going to live to see his next birthday since he was a child.
Anyone that knew him will know what a titan he was.
I am so very sad that he is gone.
He and I met in 2003 when we were still recording Australian Idol, before an episode had even aired - and he helped me understand what life in the public eye worked like.
We stayed close through the up times and were there for each other over and over on the dark times.
For all the late night phone calls, Skype and FaceTime across the planet, I’m grateful we were there to support each other as we navigated this journey.
The presence and joy he had in every breath he took was always evident, even when he had to start using an Oxygen generator to take those breaths.
I’ve never known anyone to truly live every day with the joy and deliberate purpose as you, but when you’ve been told that you won’t live another year every year since you were a kid - I guess life becomes immediate quickly.
His fierce independence, his tenacious drive and his incredible creativity will stay with me forever.
He touched many people.
I’m grateful that I had a front row seat to his world, and that Audrey was indeed able to share some of those times too - I’m glad she got to know him as I did.
Here’s the first time I had Quentin on my podcast, back in episode 21.
I’ll miss you Q.
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