Bad People

In the summer of 1984 a serial killer was on the loose in Los Angeles. Richard Ramirez or the ‘night stalker’ as he would come to be known, broke into people’s houses as they slept and then proceeded to rape, torture and murder whoever was inside. He would sometimes draw satanic pentagrams on the victims’ bodies, and use their own blood to write messages on the wall.

During his trial, Ramirez gained a large group of admirers, so-called ‘murder-groupies’. He would go on to receive hundreds of letters while in prison and even got married while on death row. Ramirez is not alone in getting this kind of romantic attention. Cult leader Charles Manson, Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik and Danish killer Peter Madsen have all received fan-mail.

On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen uncover why some women seek out romantic relationships with men who have committed horrific crimes.

Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence, Satanism and murder.

Archive credits: This episode includes audio from DailyMotion, NBC Universal and KRON4.

CREDITS:

Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar

Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps

Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds

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"Pretendians" are people who falsely claim a native American or indigenous Canadian identity.

In 2024, a 59 year old woman who falsely claimed her daughters were adopted Inuit girls was sentenced to three years in a Canadian prison. Karima Manji lied about her daughters' heritage to claim $150,000 from funds reserved for Inuit people. The judge sentenced her to more than the two years recommended by the prosecution, stating that Manji had "victimized the Inuit of Nunavut by stealing their identity."

Should crimes involving cultural appropriation attract a heavier sentence?

Hosts: Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque.

Producer: Shabnam Grewal Assistant Producer: Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks killed his mother-in-law and almost killed her husband. He claims he was asleep with amnesia for most of the event. The burden of proof is now on the defence. How can he prove that he was asleep? And if he can, does it mean he will walk free?

In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen investigate how sleep scientists can examine our brainwaves to see whether we are conscious or awake. Can stress, anxiety, or sleep deprivation make us more likely to sleepwalk? What is the legal defence of “non-insane automatism”, and why is it so incredibly hard to argue in a courtroom?

CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler

Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland

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If a killer refuses to reveal where they’ve hidden a body – should they have to stay in prison?

Helen McCourt’s family campaigned for the UK to adopt an Australian-style “no body, no parole” law – but would it be adopted in time to stop the release of her killer?

In 1989 pub landlord Ian Simms was one of the first people in the UK to be convicted on DNA evidence without the victim's body having been found. Sentenced to at least 16 years in jail for Helen's murder, Simms still claims he's innocent.

The jury were convinced by forensic evidence such as traces of Helen's blood which were found in Simms' flat and car. An opal and pearl earring identical to one Helen was wearing when she went missing was also found in the boot of his car.

Although "no body, no parole" might act as a deterrent to some offenders who choose not to reveal where their victim's body is, we also hear hear about concerns that it might interfere with the goals of rehabilitating offenders and reducing re-offending. The 750,000 signatories to a petition supporting Helen's Law believe that the needs of families whose pain continues as long as they have no body to bury should be prioritised.

Helen's mum Marie McCourt hopes that one day she will be able to take flowers to Helen's grave.

Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Paula McGrath and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar

Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps

Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds

#BadPeople_BBC

Bad People specials will be available on BBC Sounds. On December 28th, Dr Julia Shaw, Sofie Hagen and Sarah Phelps, the writer of the new BBC One drama A Very British Scandal, talk about slut-shaming in the 1960s and today. On January 2nd, Julia and Sofie speak with Danielle MacDonald about her character in the new BBC One drama The Tourist. They discuss fatphobia, emotional abuse and what it was like filming during a sandstorm in Australia’s outback.