Corruption Epidemic, with Yama Torabi

10/02/20 • 88 min

Dr. Yama Torabi is a Senior Research Associate and a political scientist. He holds two masters degrees, in Political Science and International Relations, and a PhD in International Relations.

In 2005, Torabi founded Integrity Watch Afghanistan, which, after completing his studies in France, he returned to Kabul to direct between 2009 and 14.

He was commissioner and rotating chair of Afghanistan’s Joint Independent Monitoring and Evaluation Committee (MEC) between 2012 and 17, and head of the government’s Special Anti-Corruption Secretariat (SACS) from 2017 until earlier this year.

We covered a lot of ground on a topic that has characterised both post-2001 administrations in Kabul and has gone a long way to driving sympathy, if not toward the Taliban, certainly away from the government.

Torabi and I talk about the origins of the corruption epidemic in Afghanistan and some of it’s key practitioners in the years immediately after the U.S. invasion.

We discuss how patronage networks permeate the highest levels of government and the international community’s complicity in enabling it to flourish.

Torabi explains some of the ways and means by which corruption exists in the security sector, through fuel imports, electricity, in development, counter-narcotics,and politics. He also explains the country’s biggest post-2001 corruption scandal - the 2010 collapse of Kabul Bank.

I ask Torabi about the Taliban assertion that the group is corruption-free and about how successful President Ghani has been at driving anti-corruption efforts after campaigning on it in 2014 and, since, under the constant pressure of international donors and diplomats who have often prioritised short term issues over long-lasting reform.

Dr. Yama Torabi is a Senior Research Associate and a political scientist. He holds two masters degrees, in Political Science and International Relations, and a PhD in International Relations.

In 2005, Torabi founded Integrity Watch Afghanistan, which, after completing his studies in France, he returned to Kabul to direct between 2009 and 14.

Torabi and I talk about the origins of the corruption epidemic in Afghanistan and some of it’s key practitioners in the years immediately after the U.S. invasion.

We discuss how patronage networks permeate the highest levels of government and the international community’s complicity in enabling it to flourish.

Previous Episode

Talking While Fighting, with a Taliban Military Commander

It was the second time I’d met and interviewed this Taliban commander. I refer to him in the podcast as Ismael. The first time, several weeks ago, he didn’t want me to record our conversation. It did, however, give me the opportunity to obtain the kind of information I needed to be confident that he was who he said he was.

Ismael and I spoke in a provincial capital—a government-controlled area. It had taken him half a day of travel there and he was about to lie down to sleep when I arrived, but he insisted we start the interview straight away.

I started by asking him about the early days of the the American-led invasion in 2001 and about why he decided to take up a weapon. We talk about his experience fighting the Americans and about the time he was captured during an American night raid.

Then we move ahead to more recent years, to the time when talks between American and Taliban representatives began in Doha in 2018, continued through to February this year—2020—and culminated in the signing of an agreement between the two sides which, it was hoped, would pave the way to bringing an end to the war.

We talk about the violence that has continued since then, despite the rhetoric of peace, about the existence of al Qaeda in Afghanistan, the changes for those living in areas under Taliban control since American air power was curtailed after the Doha Agreement, and about the changes he wants to see come as a result of the talks currently underway in Doha between the Taliban and representatives of the Afghan republic.

I asked him about the fears that ethnic minorities and women have about a return of the Taliban and how a Taliban military commander like him could come and go from government-controlled provincial capitals so freely.

I have to say that Ismael was more restrained with a microphone in front of him than he was the first time we spoke. So, bear in mind while you're listening that he is speaking very much to official Taliban talking points.

Next Episode

Leading the Charge with Farahnaz Forotan

At only 28, Farahnaz Forotan has worked at three of Afghanistan’s largest television broadcasters since 2012, hosting flagship talk shows at two of them, including 1TV’s hugely popular weekly program, Kabul Debate, which she's headed since 2019.

Forotan is also the founder of My Red Line, an online advocacy campaign allowing Afghans to voice the rights they enjoy now and which they refuse to forfeit or negotiate on as peace negotiations proceed in Doha.

We began by talking about Forotan’s earliest years, during the late 1990s after the Taliban had taken control of Kabul and about the conflicts that arose in her family when she started working in the media, later on, in 2012, and how her family’s perception of her work changed since then. We also go into some of the problems she’s had working in the media industry itself, including about the time she volunteered to report from arguably the most dangerous district in the country.

She tells me what annoys her about the way foreign reporters cover Afghanistan and about the lack of basic safety protections Afghan journalists have.

Forotan talks about My Red Line and how the desires of people in rural areas differ from those living in urban areas. She also goes into how she felt the U.N. agency that offered support tried to take undue ownership of the campaign.

Forotan tells me about how she sees the Taliban misusing Islam by rewriting the rules as it suits them, especially when it comes to issues like corporal and capital punishment.

I ask Forotan about the criticisms she receives on social media about being a member of the so-called Kabul elite and about the photo taken of her, in which she's without a headscarf, while interviewing a member of the Taliban’s negotiating team in Doha recently.

Farhad Darya's Salaam Afghanistan.