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Walking With Dante

Walking With Dante

Mark Scarbrough

Ever wanted to read Dante's Divine Comedy? Come along with us! We're not lost in the scholarly weeds. (Mostly.) We're strolling through the greatest work (to date) of Western literature. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I take on this masterpiece passage by passage. I'll give you my rough English translation, show you some of the interpretive knots in the lines, let you in on the 700 years of commentary, and connect Dante's work to our modern world. The pilgrim comes awake in a dark wood, then walks across the known universe. New episodes every Sunday and Wednesday.
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Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Walking With Dante episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Walking With Dante for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Walking With Dante episode by adding your comments to the episode page.

Most of INFERNO Canto XI is taken up with Virgil's description of the road ahead, his "mappa-inferno," as it were. The old poet claims he's laid it all out with "clear reasoning."

But maybe not, because our pilgrim has a couple of questions for his guide.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the first of these questions, really one about geography: Why are some people inside the walls of Dis and others outside?

This passage is quite complex because it involves some (loopy) scholastic reasoning, which will never quite do the trick it's supposed to do. It's supposed to explain reality. Instead, it omits as much as it includes.

Here are the segments of this episode:

[01:05] My English translation of the passage from INFERNO: Canto XI, lines 67 - 90. If you'd like to look at my translation, you can find it out my website, markscarbrough.com, under the header "Walking With Dante."

[03:16] First up, the pilgrim's question. It starts in flattery and then moves on to question the very mapping Virgil has (ostensibly) so carefully worked out.

[06:45] The pilgrim's question actually reveals a structural coherence in the "upper" circles of hell we may have missed.

[08:23] Now on to Virgil's answer, both its sadism (he is absurdly angry) and its logic. God has a vendetta. How does that work out?

[14:00] A long section on the ramifications of Virgil's answer. There's so much to consider here, not only the three sorts of sin he outlines, but the changing nature both of hell and Virgil's character in COMEDY.

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We're in the fifth circle of INFERNO. We may or may not be over a divide in the poem, over a break. Boccaccio thought so. Many modern scholars do. I hesitate, sort of do. A few don't see a break at all.

I'll give you some reasons why this may not be a break in the poem--and offer you some details on the curious knots in this longer passage among the wrathful.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we walk slowly with the pilgrim Dante across the known universe--or here, set out across Styx in a boat. This is a curious passage, all about questions of interpretation and Dante-the-poet's position toward the material he cites in his own work.

And it's just fun, too. Because it's Dante. And hell. And the wrathful. And Virgil. Plus, it's a story. (That last, by the way, may be the most important point of all.)

Here are the segments of this episode:

[01:05] Here's the passage for this episode from INFERNO: Canto VIII, Lines 7 - 30. Actually, I'll back up and take it from the first line of the canto for a running start into these lines.

[02:35] Does the poem start in a new direction? Most thought so in the Renaissance. (Thank you, Boccaccio.) Most didn't think so later. Most now again think so. But here are some of the reasons my own interpretation--that in fact it does restart at Canto VIII--may be wrong.

[07:46] The scene opens with towers signaling each other. In other words, it opens with a question of interpretation in a scene analogous to a scene of reading.

[10:58] The little boat arrives! It seems important that it's "little," as opposed to Charon's big boat.

[12:21] Who is Phlegyas? Why is he here in the poem?

[14:04] Perhaps it's not a good idea to think about the poet Dante in terms of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Perhaps it's better to think of him in terms of the classical and the modern world.

[17:44] The problem of corporeality is solved! The boat sinks down under the weight of the pilgrim. But that solution brings with it more problems! And maybe it also exhibits a greater confidence on the part of this poet.

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Walking With Dante - The Case For Francesca: Inferno, Canto V, Lines 88 - 142
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12/20/20 • 34 min

Francesca has been a subject of fierce debate in literary history. By the mid-nineteenth century, she's been turned into an almost Byronic hero.

Maybe the truth of the matter is that she's bigger than her sin. Not in a "Romantic heroine" sort of way. Maybe she escapes the poet who gives her a voice.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I explore Francesca's speech in Canto V of Dante's INFERNO. Maybe Francesca does the ultimate that a character can do: she pulls the curtain back to reveal her creator, standing there in all his ambivalence and unfulfilled desire.

In this episode, I'll build a case for Francesca and explain how perhaps she does truly escape her damnation as she escapes the very text that imprisons her.

Here are the segments of this episode:

[01:00] The reasons why there should be a case for and against her.

[02:24] My English translation of the passage from INFERNO: Canto V, lines 88 - 142. If you want to see this translation, it's on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[05:17] An admission: the case for Francesca is really the case against Dante-the-poet.

[06:33] Is she really a flatterer? Or is she more of a poet?

[10:41] Her hymn to love. Yes, it slips the definitions between lust and love. But she's only doing what Virgil and Dante have already done.

[15:18] Francesca calls the poet on his game. Her speech is so difficult, so overwhelming, that she reveals that he still turns to classical literature, not theological literature, for the answers to the questions of human motivation and purpose.

[19:07] Francesca is a reader! Surely this must actually be a mark in her favor. She's the very thing the poet wants.

[20:20] Paolo kissed her "trembling all over." It's a clue. It's an echo from Dante's reaction to Beatrice in the VITA NUOVA.

[24:27] The final problem: Francesca does with Paolo what Dante-the-poet never did with Beatrice. The passage ends with desire fulfilled. And the pilgrim faints--and maybe the poet, too.

[25:50] The incredible scope of Canto V: from the sure judge Minos to Francesca's long passage of (perhaps) ambiguity and (perhaps) deep irony.

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As Dante the pilgrim gazes at the gorgeous sky, he finds an old man standing next to him, a figure who will startle us (if not the pilgrim) and who will eventually cue us that all is not what it seems in the second third of Dante's COMEDY.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we turn with the pilgrim to PURGATORIO's first great surprise. Let's talk about this old man without identifying him yet--because that's exactly what our text does.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 28 - 48. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:02] Our first task: The Big Dipper. It's a minor translation problem in the passage.

[04:35] The on-going movement from Dante the pilgrim: turning, not walking.

[06:52] The effects of wonder in this passage have already been noted in INFERNO, Canto XXVIII.

[08:00] Our first vision of the lone, old man, emerging at us from the text.

[08:58] The old man is not immediately identified--and that may be crucial to our seeing the poem correctly.

[12:18] The old man has a paternal quality. Does that make him a potential rival for Virgil?

[13:37] The old man has a long, forked beads, reminiscent of the representation of Moses in the Florentine Baptistry mosaics.

[14:58] The old man is first seen by Dante the pilgrim after he turns to the north.

[15:54] The old man is directly linked to the four stars over the South Pole.

[16:51] There is another old man ("veglio") in the poem: the old man of Crete.

[18:18] The old man's appearance is reminiscent of Jesus's appearance to Mary Magdalene at the garden tomb.

[19:35] The old man seems very keen on the legal niceties.

[21:37] The old man is a blocking figure, like many others we've met in INFERNO.

[22:30] But there's a significant difference: This old man may be open to change.

[23:57] Rereading PURGATORIO, Canto 1, Lines 28 - 48

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Dante our pilgrim and his guide, Virgil, have come across a flock of sheep-like souls at the very bottom rung of Mount Purgatory. They've fallen in with them, going in front, when one of these humbled souls steps out and gives the first great monologue of PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we encounter Manfred, the self-proclaimed King of Sicily and Emperor Frederick II's illegitimate son. This passage is strange and unexpected, about as strange for Dante's audience as the appearance of Cato was for us.

We'll only cover the first "half" of Manfred's speech in this episode. Here are its segments:

[02:22] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 103 - 120. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:14] Who is Manfred?

[09:14] Who is the Empress Constance? And who is Manfred's daughter, mentioned in the passage?

[10:50] The big surprise is that Manfred is not in hell!

[13:12] What is the pilgrim Dante's reaction to Manfred? Why would Manfred (dead in 1266 CE) expect Dante to recognize him?

[17:27] Why does Manfred smile?

[19:49] Why are Manfred's wounds still visible?

[24:40] A structure analysis of the middle part of PURGATORIO, Canto III.

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Help support WALKING WITH DANTE to keep it sponsor-free. Click here for a PayPal link to donate and help me cover licensing, hosting, streaming, and research fees.

Having heard three stories of those who died violent deaths unshriven, Dante the pilgrim is besieged by requests from others. A crowd forms around him, all begging for prayer, including six individuals singled out from the crowd.

But something's amiss. Someone has won at a game of dice--and someone has lost. Who's the winner and who's the loser?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this final episode to those who died violent deaths yet are among the souls slowly (!) ascending to heaven.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:26] My English translation of this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto VI, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or print it off to make notes, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] PURGATORIO, Canto VI as a whole: an introduction to its structure.

[06:19] The six souls who accost the pilgrim Dante: three named and three unnamed (or, better, named periphrastically).

[15:49] Why does Dante the poet feel the need to obscure three of these pressing souls?

[19:08] An Arabic game of dice opens Canto VI--and may be a meta-statement about COMEDY as a whole.

[24:18] Who is the winner of this game? Dante the pilgrim, of course. But who is the loser? Probably Virgil!

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Virgil--and/or Dante, our poet--has already rewritten Ovid, Statius, and Lucan's poems. Now in a bit of insane daring, Virgil takes on this own poem, THE AENEID. He retells the story of the founding of Mantua, rewriting the version he tells in his own poem inside of Dante's poem, and then daring us then to call his own poem fraudulent.

This passage may be one of the most striking smacks against Virgil in COMEDY. But maybe it has to be so. Maybe writers have to decide that the texts of other writers are up for grabs. Maybe it's the only way you can write into the predictive space of storytelling and find your own voice to diagnose the human condition.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, in an exploration of the end of Virgil's longest speech in COMEDY and a bit of fresh air and open fields in a canticle about doom and suffering.

Here are the segments of this episode of the podcast WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:13] My English translation of the passage: INFERNO, Canto XX, lines 52 - 99. If you'd like to read along, you can find this passage on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:03] An overall impression of the passage: We've left hell and entered open, airy, beautiful, green space in the real world.

[07:23] Virgil tells the story of the founding of his hometown, Mantua. Except it's not the same story he tells in THE AENEID. Here are some of the differences.

[11:58] What's going on here? One interpretive possibility is that Dante the poet is trying to save Virgil, who was often seen a magician or a practitioner of the dark arts in medieval folklore.

[13:30] Another interpretive possibility is that Dante the poet is smacking his master, Virgil, by forcing him to call THE AENEID fraudulent.

[15:11] Maybe there's a third understanding of this passage: every writer has to figure out how to use the texts of the past and of his contemporaries to write what she or he wants to say about the human condition.

[18:43] The emotional center of the passage: "beautiful Italy." Maybe there's a hope here expressed for a peaceful and even united Italy.

[22:11] Which way are these sinners walking? Don't answer too quickly. It's more difficult a question than you might think.

[25:51] There's a contemporary moment in the passage, a reference to the Guelph and Ghibelline struggles in Mantua. If "beautiful Italy" is the hope, the peninsula is still a bloodbath.

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Without a doubt, this passage is one of the densest with classical allegory in INFERNO. The references are so thick and fast, in fact, that Dante-the-poet even steps out and asks us to notice it as a giant allegorical scheme in the poem.

But an allegorical scheme of what? Which part of all this time among the wrathful is allegorical? All of it? Even back to Phlegyas' boat? Or just this scene? Just the Furies? Or maybe just the threat of Medusa's arrival? Or even just the bit about Virgil's hands, which get placed over the pilgrim's eyes?

This passage starts with a problem--memory fails in a poem that promises memory won't--and moves through an intense sequence of classical references in front of the walls of Dis. It's surely one of the most complicated passage we've yet encountered in terms of literary traditions and classical literature.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I explore this passage from INFERNO and get a bit lost in the weeds of classical literature--because Dante-the-poet asks me to.

Here are the segments of this episode:

[01:06] My English translation of this passage from INFERNO: Canto IX, lines 34 - 63.

[03:17] Memory fails at the walls of Dis! Understandable, sure, because it's terrifying. Problem is, Dante-the-poet prayed for "unerring memory" back in Canto II. So what's going on?

[04:50] The Furies arrive in all their horror--and all their allegory, too. Here we strike at the heart of this complicated passage in which we're asked to Christianize classical literature and "classicize" a Christian poem.

[11:16] Dante-the-pilgrim presses close to Virgil. But maybe the poet does, too. Maybe the way out of too much classical imagery is to engage more deeply with . . . classical literature. Or maybe engage more humanly?

[14:11] The threat of the Medusa! She'll turn him to stone. But which him? Dante-the-pilgrim? Or Dante-the-poet? Maybe both.

[18:45] In the final tercet, the poet steps out and asks us to look behind the "veil" of his poetry. I've got four points about this complex stance. 1) What about this entire sequence in front of Dis makes the poet break the fourth wall of the narrative twice? 2) What does it mean to get behind the "veil" of his poetry? 3) If we do get behind it to see the allegory, which allegory are we supposed to see? And 4) what if in fact we have the first example of a bit of insecurity, not from the pilgrim, but from the Dante-the-poet?

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We've come to the first subset of the last circle of INFERNO, the pit of hell, an ice sheet that start with Caïna, which holds those who've offed family members, mostly for land or money. These guys are frozen solid to their necks, the heads bent down to let their tears spill onto the ice.

They're a nasty lot, although one of the damned can't help but speak up. He proves both a snitch and strangely reticent. A poor storyteller, really, who just wants to get back to his misery.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at a pack of traitors who've killed family members for land or money (or power) in this nightmarish subset of hell which is actually controlled by the shadow of another sinner, someone far above us in the circles of INFERNO.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:40] My English translation of the passage: INFERNO, Canto XXXII, lines 40 - 69. If you want to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:26] Disorientation (and focus) as one of the thematics of the ninth circle of hell.

[08:49] A frozen, infernal parody of a brotherly kiss of affection (or maybe even the liturgical kiss of peace).

[13:42] Dante's strange (and perhaps unnecessary?) interest in the damned, expressed by their physicality.

[16:50] The traitor's question invokes a larger one about how Dante the poet and/or the pilgrim is mirrored here.

[20:15] The last fifteen lines of this passage--first, a quick reading with the details filled in.

[23:34] Caïna: unpacking the name of the first subcircle of the ninth circle.

[25:47] Unpacking the characters in this passage: Alessandro and Napoleone degli Alberti, Modred, Focaccia (or Vanni dei Cancellieri), Sassol Mascheroni, Camicione de' Pazzi, and Carlino de' Pazzi.

[35:01] Reasons for the (mostly) obsessive regionalism of this passage: the locale and time (mostly) in which Dante lived.

[40:33] Francesca's control of this passage from way up above in Canto V.

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Just a quick note to say that the podcast WALKING WITH DANTE is on a brief hiatus after our slow-walk through INFERNO. We'll be back at the walk in perhaps mid-March of 2023. Get ready. We've got quite a climb ahead! See you then.

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FAQ

How many episodes does Walking With Dante have?

Walking With Dante currently has 386 episodes available.

What topics does Walking With Dante cover?

The podcast is about Fiction, Podcasts, Books and Arts.

What is the most popular episode on Walking With Dante?

The episode title 'Virgil And His Fraudulent Poem The Aeneid: Inferno, Canto XX, Lines 52 - 99' is the most popular.

What is the average episode length on Walking With Dante?

The average episode length on Walking With Dante is 28 minutes.

How often are episodes of Walking With Dante released?

Episodes of Walking With Dante are typically released every 4 days.

When was the first episode of Walking With Dante?

The first episode of Walking With Dante was released on Sep 26, 2020.

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