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Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders

Scott J. Allen

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Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders offers a smart, fast-paced discussion on all things leadership. Scott and his expert guests cover timely, relevant topics and incorporate practical tips designed to help you make a difference in how you lead and live.
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#80 in the Top 100 Management All time chart

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Funto Boroffice is the founder/C.E.O. of award-winning Chanja Datti Ltd, a waste collection & recycling social enterprise dedicated to transforming the waste in her environment to value and creating jobs, and Quidroo, a fintech startup providing access to working capital for Nigeria SMEs, especially women-owned SMEs. Before starting Chanja Datti, she spent three years as a Senior Aide to Nigeria’s Honorable Minister of Power, covering Investments, Finance & Donor Relations, and before that, 17 years gaining global financial, strategy, and project improvement experience - 12 of which were as a G.E. executive in the U.S., where she was a Vice President, working in the largest G.E. Capital Americas business. She graduated with a Masters’ degree in Financial Management from Pace University’s Lubin School of Business in New York and has a Bachelors’ degree in Accounting and Finance from Northeastern University in Boston, where she graduated cum laude (with honors).

She is a founding member and Vice President of the Recycling Association of Nigeria (R.A.N.), founder of Initiative for the Advancement of Waste Management in Africa (aka W.A.S.T.E. Africa), a Fellow of the Waste Management Society of Nigeria, and an alumnus of the several prestigious local and international programs and sits on several boards. She was recognized in 2021 by Global Citizen.org as one of 11 Change-making Africans that the world needs to know about, recognized by CNBC Rising Woman Africa series as one of 31 African women leaders in 2021, and winner of the 2021 WE Empower UN SDG Challenge.

Quotes From This Episode

  • "Passion, started the whole process. I knew that I couldn't rely on the government to solve some of the issues I was seeing around me. I also knew that it wasn't a simple case of 'copy and paste' from what I did in the US, because people's needs are so different."
  • "One of the things that I tried to do is let the result speak for itself. Because regardless of what you do, when you see results, you can't argue with results. Plus, not taking 'no' for an answer."

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan for ILA's 24th Global Conference online on October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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Sara Saeed Khurram, M.D. is the Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Sehat Kahani. Sehat Kahani works on improving basic health care in communities through a spectrum of services focused on primary health care consultation, health awareness, and health counseling. Dr. Sara Saeed recently won the APTECh Young Entrepreneurs award for Sehat Kahani, and her work was also featured in a BBC documentary (see below).
Dr. Sara Saeed Khurram has won notable awards including CRDF Global, Ashoka Changemakers, ISIF Asia, the Unilever Sustainable Living Young Entrepreneurs Awards, and the Unicef-Global Goal Campaigner Award 2016 for her role formerly with doctHERs. She has been part of a well-known accelerator in Pakistan, Invest2 Innovate. She is also a part of the regional Acumen fellowship cohort 2016.
Dr. Sara Saeed Khurram grew up in Karachi, Pakistan. She completed her MBBS from DOW University of Health Sciences, and she is a graduate of the Health Policy Management Programme at The Aga Khan University of Health Sciences.
A Couple Quotes From This Episode

  • "So they thought that until a doctor checks a pulse of a patient, there is no healthcare. So many myths to fight..."
  • "What motivates me is my two daughters. I'm doing this for the day that they don't have to ask anyone when they do something for themselves. So I believe that if they see me making my own decisions, they will feel much more empowered to make their own decisions."

About the 2022 ILA Healthcare Conference

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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Ming-Ka Chan, MD is a Clinician Educator and Associate Professor in the Department of Pediatrics and Child Health at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg, Canada. She's a Chinese immigrant grateful to live and work in Treaty 1 Territory and the Homeland of the Metis Nation (currently known as Winnipeg) in Turtle Island (presently known as Canada). A Pediatrics Clinician Educator at the University of Manitoba, her scholarship focuses on leadership education and social justice in the health professions.

She is currently the Co-Director, Office of Leadership Education, Rady Faculty of Health Sciences, and Director of the Shantou University Medical College-University of Manitoba Academic Exchange. Chan is also Co-Chair of the Canadian Association for Medical Education CLIME 2.0 leadership intensive.

She looks at leadership education across the educational continuum in the five health colleges and the inaugural Equity, Diversity, Inclusivity, and Social Justice Lead for the Department of Pediatrics and Child Health. Dr. Chan is the current chair of Sanokondu, a global community of practice focused on health leadership education emphasizing learners.

Quotes From This Episode

  • "It's really hard to be well if you've never felt welcome."
  • "You talked about 'successful,' I think each person might have a different word or metric for what that looks like. More recently, in the last decade, it's really about this idea of having true belonging and dignity, and that's the starting point to get to our best self."
  • "It's important to be equity-seeking and really respect diverse voices. It can be hard to do - you may not even realize who is not at the table, or for that matter, the circle...asking questions, being curious and really listening with intent."

About the 2022 ILA Healthcare Conference

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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Todd Deal, Ph.D., serves as Senior Faculty and Director of the Higher Education practice in the Societal Advancement group at the Center for Creative Leadership. In this role, his focus is on partnering with institutions across the broad landscape of higher education to provide leadership education and leader development. Todd and his team work across the higher education spectrum. They co-design leadership programs for college students to facilitate leadership development initiatives for faculty, staff, and executives at the college, university, and system levels.
Todd served as Associate Dean, earned tenure, and was promoted to full professor. He also authored a chemistry textbook - now in its 4th edition. Todd was the founding director of the leadership, community engagement, and service-learning program at Georgia Southern University where he taught leadership courses for 10+ years. He earned a graduate certificate in leadership from Northeastern University, completed the Art & Practice of Leadership Development with Ron Heifetz & Marty Linsky at Harvard University, and twice served as faculty for ILA's Leadership Education Academy (LEA).
Todd is the founder of TDLearning, Inc. He is a sought-after speaker and leadership development professional, having partnered with various corporate, non-profit, and higher education institutions to provide innovative, strengths-based development experiences for professionals and students. His professional affiliations include the American Chemical Society, the International Leadership Association, the Association of Leadership Educators, and the National Clearinghouse for Leadership Programs.
Todd and his wife (of 27 yrs) Karen live in Hilton Head Island, SC (NOT retired, far from it!) and are the parents of two brilliant, beautiful, talented young adult daughters.

Quotes From This Episode

  • "Activation energy - the minimum amount of energy that is required to activate atoms or molecules to a condition in which they can undergo chemical transformation or physical transport." - Britannica
  • On moving from chemistry to leadership - "The molecules behave so much better than the people. They're regular and you can predict what's going to happen. The people you never know!"
  • On resilience - "It's less about grit and getting through it - that's a component. But it's taking that recharge time, what is it that you're doing to fill your bucket back up? So that you show up at your very, very best."

Connecting With Todd

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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Ira Chaleff is an author, speaker, workshop presenter, and innovative thinker on the beneficial use of power between those who are leading and those who are following in any given situation. His groundbreaking book, The Courageous Follower: Standing Up To and For Our Leaders, is in its third edition, has been published in multiple languages, and is in use in institutions around the globe including educational, corporate, government, and military organizations.

He has recently completed two terms of service as a member of the Board of Directors of the International Leadership Association (ILA) and is the founder of its Followership Member Community. He is currently mentoring a community of academics and professionals in the field of courageous followers gathered around the Teaching Followers Courage project. Ira is also the founder and president of Executive Coaching & Consulting Associates, which provides coaching, consulting, and facilitation to companies, associations, and agencies throughout the Washington, DC, area.
He is chairman emeritus of the nonpartisan Congressional Management Foundation and has provided facilitation to nearly one hundred congressional offices to improve their service to constituents. Ira is Adjunct Faculty at the Federal Executive Institute where he teaches a weeklong elective workshop on Courageous Followers, Courageous Leaders in the Leadership in a Democratic Society program, and is a Visiting Leadership Scholar at the University of Cambridge, England.

Ira has been named one of the “100 best minds on leadership” by Leadership Excellence magazine. He was cited in the Harvard Business Review as one of the three pioneers in the growing field of followership studies.

Ira Chaleff lives in the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains outside of Washington, DC, where bears frequently disobey the No Trespassing signs on the road and help keep his connection strong with the wonders of nature.
A Quote From This Episode

  • "I had to ask myself the question, 'if evolution sorts out the behaviors that don't contribute to a species' survival, why is this strong-man-autocrat, proto-tyrant, still so prevalent? They must be serving some purpose.' That's a very problematic statement."

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference Online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or Onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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Dr. Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries is the Distinguished Clinical Professor of Leadership Development and Organisational Change and the Raoul de Vitry d’Avaucourt Chaired Professor of Leadership Development, Emeritus, at INSEAD. He brings a different view to the much-studied subjects of leadership and individual and organizational change. Bringing to bear his knowledge and experience of economics (EconDrs, University of Amsterdam), management (ITP, MBA, and DBA, Harvard Business School), and psychoanalysis (Canadian Psychoanalytic Society and the International Psychoanalytic Association), he scrutinizes the interface between international management, psychoanalysis, psychotherapy, and dynamic psychiatry. His specific areas of interest are leadership, career dynamics, executive stress, entrepreneurship, family business, succession planning, cross-cultural management, team building, coaching, and corporate transformation and change. Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries directs The Challenge of Leadership Executive Education program.

He has received the INSEAD Distinguished Teacher Award five times. He has held professorships at McGill University, the Ecole des Hautes Etudes Commerciales, Montreal, and the Harvard Business School and has lectured at management institutions worldwide.

He is the author, co-author, or editor of more than 50 books and has published over 400 papers as articles or chapters in books. His books and articles are translated into thirty-one languages. He is a member of seventeen editorial boards, and he’s a Fellow of the Academy of Management.

Financial Times, Le Capital, Wirtschaftswoche, and The Economist rated Manfred Kets de Vries as one of the world’s top fifty leading management thinkers and one of the most influential contributors to human resource management. In 2008, he received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Leadership Association (the Leadership Legacy Project), being viewed as one of the world’s six founding professionals in developing leadership as a field and discipline.

A Few Quotes From This Episode

  • “I try to train reflective leaders. People who have some self-knowledge, some self-awareness...have some ability to deal with the complexity of what’s going on.”
  • (Speaking in Russia on 2.28.22). I made three comments when I ended my class because people were becoming panicky.
    • Ideology overrules rationality.
    • Paranoia is the disease of kings.
    • He who rides a tiger cannot dismount.

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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Cynthia McCauley is an honorary senior fellow at the Center for Creative Leadership. With more than 35 years of experience, Cindy has been involved in many aspects of CCL’s work: research, publications, program and product development, evaluation, coaching, and management. Capitalizing on this broad experience, she has developed expertise in leader development methods, including developmental assignments and relationships, 360-degree feedback, and action learning. She has also played a central role in CCL’s efforts to understand leadership as a collective phenomenon shared among people and to expand its leadership development practice to include the development of teams and leadership cultures.

Cindy has published numerous articles and book chapters for scholars, HR professionals, and practicing managers. She is the co-editor of three editions of The Center for Creative Leadership Handbook of Leadership Development (1998, 2004, 2010), as well as two books on experience-based development (Using Experience to Develop Leadership Talent, Experience-Based Leader Development: Models, Tools, Best Practices, and Advice). Cindy has a Ph.D. in industrial-organizational psychology from the University of Georgia and is a Fellow of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology, the American Psychological Association, and the American Educational Research Association.
A Few Quotes From This Episode

  • "What we say is leadership is an 'achievement of the collective,' which might be the most concise way to express a relational view of leadership."
  • “Assessment, challenge, and support...are the elements that combine to make developmental experiences more powerful. That is, whatever the experience, it has more impact if it contains these three elements.”
  • “Individuals broaden and deepen their leadership capabilities as they do leadership work. In fact, there are good reasons to believe that learning from experience is the number one way that leader development happens.... How can organizations better harness the power of experiences for leadership development?”
  • “A leadership development strategy is a plan for the thoughtful, intentional deployment of organizational resources to ensure the ongoing availability of leadership for achieving the organization’s strategic agenda...." (with Karen Grabow)
  • “Relational views of leadership may be the disruptive idea that helps reconstruct leadership development in ways that meets these concerns” (with Chuck Palus )

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference Online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or Onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Your Host, Scott Allen

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Jonathan W. White is a professor of American Studies at Christopher Newport University. He is the author or editor of 13 books, including Emancipation, the Union Army, and the Reelection of Abraham Lincoln (2014), which was a finalist for both the Lincoln Prize and Jefferson Davis Prize, a “best book” in Civil War Monitor, and the winner of the Abraham Lincoln Institute’s 2015 book prize. He serves as vice-chair of The Lincoln Forum, and on the boards of the Abraham Lincoln Association, the Abraham Lincoln Institute, and the Ford’s Theatre Advisory Council. His most recent books include Midnight in America: Darkness, Sleep, and Dreams during the Civil War (2017), which was selected as a “best book” by Civil War Monitor; and Our Little Monitor”: The Greatest Invention of the Civil War (2018), which he co-authored with Anna Gibson Holloway. In October 2021 he published To Address You As My Friend: African Americans’ Letters to Abraham Lincoln with UNC Press and My Work Among the Freedmen: The Civil War and Reconstruction Letters of Harriet M. Buss with UVA Press. His most recent book is A House Built By Slaves: African American Visitors to the Lincoln White House.

About The Title Of This Episode

  • “I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves. And I watch my daughters, two beautiful, intelligent black young women, playing with their dogs on the White House lawn...” - First Lady, Michelle Obama at the DNC

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference Online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or Onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Your Host, Scott Allen

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Dr. Donna Ladkin is a professor of leadership and ethics at Antioch University. She is an internationally recognized leadership and ethics scholar whose philosophically-informed publications explore aesthetic, ethical, and embodied aspects of organizing and leading. Her theoretical work is underpinned by a strong commitment to the realm of practice and is informed by extensive consulting experience in both public and private organizations. Her current research focuses on exploring the structural and organizational dynamics which limit follower and leader agency within organizations, particularly in relation to their desire to act ethically.

Dr. Cherie Bridges Patrick is a leadership coach and educator, consultant, clinical social worker, and founder of Paradox Cross-Cultural Consulting, Training & Empowerment LLC. Cherie combines nearly 12 years of trauma experience with relational neuroscience to heal racial and social trauma, repair and build relationships with the goal of normalizing, generative justice-centered dialogue. Dr. Patrick has extensive experience in community mental health and engaging with immigrant families around the complexities and trauma of global displacement and resettlement. Her research examined how subtle and nuanced racial dominance was reproduced by justice-seeking professionals in day-to-day workplace discourses. She has also co-authored publications around racial dominance and racial justice in leadership.

Dr. Marion Missy McGee is a research practitioner who specializes in expanding and reframing conventional narratives to create more equitable leadership ecosystems. As an organizational strategist, she administers the design, implementation, and evaluation of domestic and international programmatic initiatives for the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of African American History and Culture, located in Washington, D.C. Marion’s scholarly research contributes to closing the gap between race and leadership through a multidimensional lens while amplifying lesser-known histories, increasing unexplored narrative exemplars, and providing greater empirical evidence from the vantage point of African American leaders.
A Few Quotes From This Episode

  • "The way in which we use language, any language, is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the many assumptions, power dynamics, and other relationships that underpin it."
  • "There's a way that language and discourses foreground things and make things very obvious, and a way that it backgrounds things."
  • (regarding leadership theory) - "First, we have to understand what purpose is being served? And then we can think about, do we want to align ourselves with that? Is there another purpose we want to be serving? And maybe we should look to those kinds of theories instead."
  • "More recently, my critical eye has turned to the way in which race is very rarely actually spoken about within leadership theorizing. But at the same time, it's very much there, in terms of much leadership theorizing is written from a particular racial perspective, and that is a white perspective."

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference Online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or Onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.
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Dr. Henry Mintzberg is a name known to many. He’s a writer and educator - most of his work focuses on managing originations, developing managers, and rebalancing societies (which is where his attention is currently focused).

After receiving his bachelor’s degree in Mechanical Engineering from McGill University in Montreal (1961), working in Operational Research for the Canadian National Railways (1961-1963), and doing his masters and Ph.D. at the MIT Sloan School of Management (1965 and 1968), He made his professional home at McGill. He’s had extensive visiting professorships at INSEAD in France and the London Business School in England.

He's authored 20 books, including Managers not MBAs, Simply Managing, Rebalancing Society, and Managing the Myths of Health Care. He also authored 180 articles plus numerous commentaries and videos.

He publishes a regular TWOG (TWeet 2 blOG), as “provocative fun in a page or 2 beyond pithy pronouncements in a line or 2” (@mintzberg141 to mintzberg.org/blog).

A collection has recently been published under the title Bedtime Stories for Managers, and following that will be Understanding Organizations...Finally (a revision of his book Structure in Fives).

He’s also an outdoorsman and collector of beaver sculptures.
A Few Quotes From This Episode

  • "There are 23 countries that are now full democracies. With a couple of exceptions, I think most of those are models of balance, particularly the Scandinavian countries (Denmark, Sweden), New Zealand...Canada's number five, which is the first middle-sized country...most of them are tiny...you could say that The Economist is claiming that about 175 countries in the world are not balanced in all kinds of ways."
  • "The question I keep asking myself is 'what's dumbing us down?'"

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Plan now for ILA's 24th Global Conference Online October 6 & 7, 2022, and/or Onsite in Washington, D.C., October 13-16, 2022.

Connect with Scott Allen

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