Chasing Justice

Every day, there are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who are in jail simply because they are too poor to buy their freedom. In this episode, DA Boudin and Rachel discuss one of the most important issues in the criminal justice reform movement: cash bail. For this discussion, they are joined by Alec Karakatsanis, the founder of Civil Rights Corps and the author of the book Usual Cruelty: The Complicity of Lawyers in the Criminal Injustice System. Alec, one of the leading bail reform lawyers in the country who successfully sued Harris County, Texas over its bail system, explains the history and practice of bail in the United States, as well as its impact on the legal system overall. Alec, DA Boudin and Rachel also explore the dangers of risk assessment tools as alternatives to bail, as well as pending bail reform litigation. DA Boudin also describes his groundbreaking policy to stop seeking cash bail in all San Francisco cases. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in criminal justice reform.

California’s Three Strikes Law has sent thousands of people to prison for life sentences, frequently for crimes in which no one was injured. In this episode, DA Boudin and Rachel are joined by Susan Champion of Stanford’s Three Strikes Project to break down the Three Strikes Law. They explore the history of this harmful law in California (as well as similar laws in other states); the effects of the law on California’s prison population; recent reforms Three Strikes has undergone; and the damage it continues to inflict. Susan, Rachel, and DA Boudin share stories of people they’ve encountered whose lives have been impacted by this law and explore what changes can be made to promote justice. They also discuss DA Boudin’s policy in regards to strikes and status enhancements.

In this crossover episode with the cohosts of Aider and Abettor podcast, Bay Area public defenders Avi Singh and Sajid Khan join DA Boudin and Rachel to examine what it means when a prosecutor represents “the people.” The group asks who are the people represented by the system at each stage and is the system really serving them? How can the system better recognize the humanity of defendants and victims? They also explore whether lawyers working in the system should find more collaboration in an adversarial system. The discussion walks through various stages of the criminal legal system (from charging, bail, plea bargains, trials, through sentencing) and reimagines all the ways in which the system should honor the humanity of the people touched by it but too often denies it. Finally, Avi leads DA Boudin, Rachel and Sajid in a “lightning round” of questions submitted by Aider and Abettor fans.

In the midst of a national conversation about holding police accountable, DA Boudin and Rachel are joined by Emily Bazelon, New York Times Magazine writer and Author of the book Charged: The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration to discuss prosecutorial accountability. They discuss the problem of the lack of transparency over the decisions prosecutors make despite their enormous influence. Emily shares some stories from her book Charged about prosecutorial abuse and discusses the broad independence prosecutors have to make decisions with little oversight. DA Boudin, Emily and Rachel also explore the lack of accountability for prosecutors in providing discovery, charging, and especially in plea bargaining, and think about the ways in which progressive prosecutors can enact changes to promote fairness. Finally, they discuss the ways the public can hold progressive prosecutors accountable, as well as the relationship between national politics and the progressive prosecution movement.

In this deeply personal episode, DA Boudin and Rachel share their own journeys towards criminal justice reform. DA Boudin describes the story of his parents’ participation in a crime that led to their incarceration for his entire childhood and explains how it tied into his career as a public defender and then to his election as the District Attorney of San Francisco. Rachel also shares her path towards and her motivations for working in criminal justice reform, first as a public defender and now for DA Boudin. The two also explore what the concept of progressive prosecutors means to each of them and their hopes for Chasing Justice.